For drums you'll need some software, not sure what free Windows software there is but in Linux you can use Hydrogen.

For Bass, you can cheat a bit, play the basslines on your guitar then use software to shift the pitches down an octave. I've done this before and works OK. and Octaver pedal does the same in real time.

Drums and bass you can look at using either loops or software. Plenty of freeware and inexpensive shareware VSTis around. The same is true for pretty much anything you can do "in the box" - lots of effects, recording and editing software.

For bass you can also use an octaver or a pitch shifter on a guitar. Not perfect, but passable.

Then you just need a decent mic. Look at the Shure SM48 (their cheaper version of the venerable SM58). There are also relatively inexpensive options in the PG range and from other manufacturers such as Sennheiser.

To be honest, your vocals are always going to be limited using the built-in soundcard (and it's atrocious mic preamp) and upgrading that to even an entry level audio interface with built in mic preamps will make a huge difference.

D-Man wrote: I record small ideas and phrases on my phone as they come to me but for my final recordings, I use my PC. I use the Line out from my amp straight to my PC's onboard soundcard with Kristal.

Hi D-Man.

Just some thoughts.

There are a few cautions when recording straight from the line out of your amp, the most important being (please forgive me if you already know this) never to record without a speaker enclosure or some sort of load attenuator attached. This goes doubly for valve amps; the most likely result being a blown output transformer. Believe me, I speak from experience...?

D-Man wrote:I have some issues with latency...

What kind of latency problems are you having? Latency can be a result of a few things, the most likely being a high buffer setting within your soundcard control panel. However, since you are using your internal sound card this is most likely the culprit as the Windows ASIO driver is terrible.

I would have to ask whether you are using the ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/) third party app? This will help you bring your buffer setting down to a low enough value to be able to achieve around 3-6 ms of latency, which should be sufficient enough. Obviously the overall latency performance of your system is dependent on how powerful your processor is and how much ram you have so if you post those specs it'll be easier to advise.

D-Man wrote:- Vocals: The only mic I have is a singstar mic (it's not even mine) and the sound quality is unsurprisingly pathetic.

I'm not surprised at your conclusion. This is a no-win situation, unfortunately, unless your only goal is to make a rudimentary recording lacking tone and depth. However, if this is the only mic you have, then it'll have to do until you can afford a better one. ?

D-Man wrote:- Bass: I only have guitars so I don't have any options (that I know of) for recording bass.

You could use a VSTi. However, I'm not sure that Kristal will host them. There IS a plugin called Guitar Controlled Bass Synth (http://www.kvraudio.com/get/882.html, which will track your guitar input from your amp (or a direct line) and convert it to a bass sound. It's VST so give it a try. It won't sound like a bass guitar but it will at least give you some sound options for filling out the low end.

D-Man wrote:- Drums: Seriously, what's a song without some percussion?

There are a few options. Once again, I don't know if Kristal supports VSTi's (I downloaded it and it doesn't look like it), but there are a few options. You could download loops and just sequence them in the Kristal window. Or you could use a third party host that supports MIDI like Mulab (http://www.mutools.com/products.html) so you can program your own and then import them into Kristal later to work on other tracks (you could also do this with bass). For some drum VSTi's you can go here:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=results&st=adv&soft%5B%5D=i&type%5B%5D=46&type%5B%5D=3&type%5B%5D=31&f%5B%5D=vst&win=1&free=1&sf=0&receptor=&de=0&sort=1&rpp=100

There's 85 options there but it's better than 800 and it's all one page. You may have to look a little to find one that suits your style.

D-Man wrote:So I'm looking for any tips, things to buy (that don't cost too much) or any advice at all.

Thanks

Everything I've described above is 100% free and will get the job done, but it will require you jumping between two programs and downloading some software.

What I can suggest if you're willing to spend a bit of money is to buy an entry level USB or Firewire soundcard that has 2 channels of i/o (2 inputs, 2 outputs), possibly a variety with built-in microphone preamps (like the MOTU Microbook or the M-Audio MobilePre) and an entry level version of multi-track DAW software such as Cubase Essential 5. Although, I always suggest buying the full version because there's no likelihood of growing out of it too soon. However, if your goal is just to record your own music at home, the entry-level version should be fine. The next thing would logically be a decent microphone with which you can record your vocals. Even a Shure SM57 will do fine with a pop filter.

Did you know it was actually a SM57 that Frank Sinatra used in the studio instead of the Neumann U47 (like you see in all the pictures)? The U47 images were just for publicity because they looked better in a picture.

Hope that helps.

Cheers ?

Another good piece of DAW software to check out is Reaper. You can try it for a month, and thereafter it's not very expensive ($40).

I picked up my Shure SM57 from Marshall for about R1400/R1500 I think, and it will last you a lifetime if you look after it. The guys are right though: get yourself a decent audio interface before you invest in a snazzy mic.

Yes, Reaper is another good suggestion. It is a full featured piece of DAW software that rivals Logic and Cubase 5 in terms of it's feature set.

The only reason why I suggested Cubase Essential 5 is that the full version (of any brand of DAW software) may be a bit much right now in terms of features and thus can become a bit overwhelming. Also, he can always upgrade.

But yeah, I can't see any harm in getting Reaper. It's just as good as any of them, IMO, and he won't grow out of it any time soon.

Cheers ?

Mo Facta wrote: Did you know it was actually a SM57 that Frank Sinatra used in the studio instead of the Neumann U47 (like you see in all the pictures)? The U47 images were just for publicity because they looked better in a picture.

Much as I love the SM57 (even on vocals with a good pre - Sade would be a good example), I'm not sure about that. Sinatra loved the U47 (the Telefunken branded ones) and the Sony C-37A - he refused to record without one or the other and was known to walk out of sessions if he did not see one or the other set up on the stands. Anyway, the 57 was only introduced in 1965, so if Frank did use it, it would only have been on his later albums. But even then, all his post Capitol recordings he was known to use the Shure 546 (the "pro" version of the 545).

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Much as I love the SM57 (even on vocals with a good pre - Sade would be a good example), I'm not sure about that. Sinatra loved the U47 (the Telefunken branded ones) and the Sony C-37A - he refused to record without one or the other and was known to walk out of sessions if he did not see one or the other set up on the stands. Anyway, the 57 was only introduced in 1965, so if Frank did use it, it would only have been on his later albums. But even then, all his post Capitol recordings he was known to use the Shure 546 (the "pro" version of the 545).

Well, all I can say is that I got my info from someone who was around in those days:

Bob Ohlsson, [i]the Womb forums[/i] wrote:Frank Sinatra had a pretty expensive vocal sound and virtually everything he recorded after leaving Capitol was done with a handheld 57.

But yes, it was after he left Capitol (which was in 1961) so you are correct in that it was on his later albums. Although, there are a considerable amount of albums that proceeded. Apart from trying to demonstrate that it's possible to get a great vocal sound with a relatively cheap SM57, I was just pointing out that there are a lot of myths in recording history that were propagated by the media trying to make prettier pictures or companies trying to sell a product. Another example is that Yamaha NS-10s are the best speakers to mix on because they are boxy and flat. While this may be true, it is still massively debatable and one might ask the question whether so many studios got them for their usefulness or for their reputation. We can thank Bob Clearmountain alone for that. I personally don't like them at all, but hey, that's just me.

Cheers ?

Edit: I've just noticed now that you pointed out the 546. The 546 is in fact an earlier precursor to the 57 (the 546 has a copper coil and an impedence switch) so I guess we're not that much in disagreement. ?

+1 on Reaper......Low cost, full feature set, yet relatively easy to learn. It is also light on processing so latencies are usually quite low.

Also a big +1 on getting an external USB/Firewire audio interface. Even the cheaper (Cough)....Behringer ones seem to work quite well.......

WOW!! Thanks for all the input, I'm sure it's already going to make a huge difference.

Mo Facta wrote: This goes doubly for valve amps; the most likely result being a blown output transformer. Believe me, I speak from experience...?

Excuse my lack of knowledge but are you saying that the input impedance of my PC could damage my amp? I never really considered that.

Mo Facta wrote: What kind of latency problems are you having? Latency can be a result of a few things, the most likely being a high buffer setting within your soundcard control panel. However, since you are using your internal sound card this is most likely the culprit as the Windows ASIO driver is terrible.

I think it's latency... Basically when I try to record one track over another, they're out of time and I end up having to do tons of editing. I just did a search for ASIO software the other day but couldn't find anything. I'll check out ASIO4ALL, thanks.

Mo Facta wrote: Obviously the overall latency performance of your system is dependent on how powerful your processor is and how much ram you have so if you post those specs it'll be easier to advise.

The system I'm using is running Windows 7 on a Core2 Quad Q8200 CPU (2.3GHz) with 3Gb DDR 2 RAM. The Audio is Realtek ALC888 on a Gigabyte EP43-UD3L... So I think it's okayish.


I'll Look for a good audio interface, I've actually been looking around for one quite a lot recently but always seem to look at something with tons of features and inputs then I get discouraged by the price

What would you recommend in the line of value for money audio interfaces?

D-Man wrote: Excuse my lack of knowledge but are you saying that the input impedance of my PC could damage my amp? I never really considered that.

Nope, I'm saying that playing your amplifier without speakers attached will hurt your amplifier. If you've got a combo you'll probably be fine. If you've got an amp made for direct recording, like a line 6, you'll also be fine. But when you try to take a line out from an amplifier without a load (a speaker) attached, you can damage the amp.

D-Man wrote:I think it's latency... Basically when I try to record one track over another, they're out of time and I end up having to do tons of editing. I just did a search for ASIO software the other day but couldn't find anything. I'll check out ASIO4ALL, thanks.

No worries at all.

D-Man wrote:The system I'm using is running Windows 7 on a Core2 Quad Q8200 CPU (2.3GHz) with 3Gb DDR 2 RAM. The Audio is Realtek ALC888 on a Gigabyte EP43-UD3L... So I think it's okayish.

My studio computer is less powerful that than (well, we have 4GB of ram) and I have never had a problem with processing power. You should have no problems either getting low latency results using asio4all.

Cheers ?

Booya!!! Thanks guys. I just installed ASIO4ALL and quickly tested it through kristal. It's perfect now! ? ? ?

Guitar controlled bass synth is also very very cool... I just need to play around with it a bit but overall I'm definitely impressed.

I just got MULAB and Im downloading a drum machine thingy ? so I'm going to test it out now

D-Man wrote: Booya!!! Thanks guys. I just installed ASIO4ALL and quickly tested it through kristal. It's perfect now! ? ? ?

Guitar controlled bass synth is also very very cool... I just need to play around with it a bit but overall I'm definitely impressed.

I just got MULAB and Im downloading a drum machine thingy ? so I'm going to test it out now

Glad I could be of help.

All the best!

Cheers ?

Hey i'm in a similar situation of trying to do cheap but decent recordings, what drum program did u download, and are u satisfied with it? To the others who suggested a cheap usb soundcard/ interface, how much would 1 of these cost? Cheap is very relative ?

Also i don't understand why you need a speaker on the line out...surely the only danger would be to your soundcard and not the amp since the signal is going from amp to soundcard, also how would you put a speaker on the line out? Can you just use a 1 male to 2 female adapter thing and put your guitar cable and speaker in there?

No danger in using a proper line out. Most these days are line level and even speaker simulated so they sound decent.

The danger is in trying to disconnect a speaker on an all valve amp and use the speaker output into a soundcard. Not really a situation many run across these days, but still worth knowing (if it's possible to do, someone will try it and end up crying).

Kalcium wrote: Hey i'm in a similar situation of trying to do cheap but decent recordings, what drum program did u download, and are u satisfied with it? To the others who suggested a cheap usb soundcard/ interface, how much would 1 of these cost? Cheap is very relative ?

I downloaded Transistor drums (or something like that) and got it to work on MULAB but I have a feeling I'm going to have to do a few more test runs of other programs because this isn't exactly my cup of tea. You don't actually program the sequence; you have to physically input it using your keyboard, mapped to a virtual keyboard, mapped to the program... And the sound isn't even that great, but I'll let you know if I find something worth mentioning.

Oh yeah, Cheap can mean anything nowadays... It's a little bit confusing at times ?

Kalcium wrote: Also i don't understand why you need a speaker on the line out...surely the only danger would be to your soundcard and not the amp since the signal is going from amp to soundcard, also how would you put a speaker on the line out? Can you just use a 1 male to 2 female adapter thing and put your guitar cable and speaker in there?

As Alan quite rightly pointed out, there is no danger in using a line out that is meant to be used as such. However, I would like to add to his reply that the danger is doubled if you attach a speaker output to your soundcard input because you will hurt your amp AND your soundcard. Although, your soundcard will probably take damage first.

Also, the danger is still prevalent if you disconnect your speaker from your amp and then use a line out. In other words, the speaker is disconnected and the line out is going into your soundcard. The danger lies in damaging the output transformer of your amplifier and in my experience, valve amps are more susceptible than solid state (transistor) amps but the danger is still there none the less.

Cheers ?

Ah ok thanks guys. I have another question if u guys don't mind, but when i record my guitar it sounds distorted or like its clipping from being too loud even though it isn't, like the peaks aren't clipping in the recording program, is there a soundcard setting that could be causing this? I'm also getting a lot of background buzz with guitar rig, when i play clean on guitar rig theres as much buzz as when i play overdriven on my amp...(it is minimised when i turn down the input volume on guitar rig but its still there...) i use a laptop and have the same noise plugged in and on battery power

If it's distorting, then something somewhere is being pushed too hard. Possibly the input on the soundcard - make sure you are plugged into the line input and not the mic one. Remember that even with line level, there are two standards: pro (+4dB) and consumer (-10dB) - that's 14dB difference, which is huge (every 3dB difference is double the power, so +4dB is more than 16 times the power of -10dB). Music equipment will usually be pro and computer gear consumer (another good reason for having a proper interface). Turn down the amp's line output and see if that helps.