How do you know you're getting the real thing?

deefstes

I guess the answer is "you don't" but I thought I'd raise it here anyway.

So you're considering buying a guitar second hand. Luckily there are well published information on the various manufacturers' websites on how to date your guitar and how to interpret the serial number. But is that all?

What stops a seller from taking a Squier Strat, sand off the printing on the headstock, print "Fender", "Made in the USA" and some serial number that is known to match purported model and sell in off as such (and priced as such)? I'd imagine the true connoisseur would know the difference instantly but would some of you care to offer tips to those of us who are not?

Question 2, is there a way to find out, by observing the serial number, what the original configuration of the guitar was? For instance, whether it was SSS or HSS, whether it was 2-color sunburst or surf green, whether it had a synchronised tremolo or FR locking tremolo etc?

guidothepimmp

hmm, interesting question.

From what I have seen you cannot get that detail from the serial. Serial indicate only year, and the number of guitar that year or month. Some serials indicate place of manufacture.

not even specific models can be linked to serials, at least not for Ibbys, Jacksons and Charvels. Im sure the same can be said for Gibsons and fenders.

singemonkey

It all comes down to details. I was lucky enough to get my first good second hand guitar without any issues - and all original. But I simply didn't have the knowledge then to have avoided being scammed.

You need to do a lot of research. A lot. And you end up with all this superfluous knowledge, but it is good for identifying a scam, or helping others. And it's not just scams - you can figure out quite a lot about your instrument if you care enough.

So first you know what type of finish was used and what it looks and feels like. That way you can tell if it's right off. You can find out what colours they made that guitar in in a given year. Catalogues can help a lot - also with identifying if parts have been replaced. Then you can look at all the hidden parts of the guitar for traces of the original finish. Inside the pickup cavities, the holes for the pots and the jack. Inside the cavity for a vibrato bridge. At the neck joint. Even if they've been painted over, given that no one will see that stuff, people might have been less than meticulous about stripping those areas. So the finish might still be found underneath.

Screw holes will tell you were something has been added and taken away, or just taken away.

It took me a long time to figure out what was going on with my first Les Paul - until I stumbled on the catalogue for that year, which has a whole long spiel about how they'd changed the guitars to be more like the very early ones (not too accurately, but anyway) and it explained exactly why it seemed different to all the others I'd seen on the net.

But ultimately, you'll never know everything, and that's why forums like this one are so useful. You constantly see threads along the lines of, "Does this look right?" Collectively people know a lot about the little details.

On the one hand, there's a lot more scamming going on - because of increased globalisation (easy to buy cheap fakes and sell them on) and the internet. But at the same time, the little bits of knowledge of tens of thousands of people is entirely at your disposal (if you're polite about it and do a little research of your own to show willing) to help you avoid trouble.

vic

Singemonkey is right. You need to do a lot of research which can be fun !
However I will ONLY buy from a reputable dealer or person, especially from abroad. You could also ask a knowledgeable person to go and check out the item.

AndrewD

Here's the catch....

I just missed out on an insane deal because I didn't believe it to be the real thing.
By the time I had done some googling and sent a few mails and realised that the guitar was genuine - someone else had bought it already.

Agreed you need to do the research but if the deal is really good - you gotta move quick!

singemonkey

AndrewD wrote: Here's the catch....

I just missed out on an insane deal because I didn't believe it to be the real thing.

But it must be borne in mind that this is the rare exception. The thing about the truism: If it looks too good to be true it probably is, is a truism because it's true ?

Yes, sometime someone will try to sell their 1959 Les Paul sunburst for R3,000 as "Electric guitar. Very old." But 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 it's a scam.

deefstes

AndrewD wrote: Here's the catch....

I just missed out on an insane deal because I didn't believe it to be the real thing.

Sure, that's going to happen from time to time but me, knowing as little as I do right now, would rather risk missing out on an insane deal than be ripped to the tune of 10k. I'm curious though, what is the deal you missed out on?

singemonkey wrote: Yes, sometime someone will try to sell their 1959 Les Paul sunburst for R3,000 as "Electric guitar. Very old."

? I want one of those please ?

AndrewD

It was a Fernandes Revival Telecaster - 2.5k on Gumtree (ad might still be up)

singemonkey

AndrewD wrote:
It was a Fernandes Revival Telecaster - 2.5k on Gumtree (ad might still be up)

Well, that sounds pretty decent, but how much of a bargain depends on which era they're from. From the early '90s on, Fenandes/Burnys aren't as good as the ones from the early '80s. I just saw this early '80s Burny on the mylespaul forum. One of the lowest end models from the early '80s, the RLG50, so it doesn't have veneer. Instead it has a "plain" maple cap. Just... wow...:

vic

singemonkey wrote:
AndrewD wrote:
It was a Fernandes Revival Telecaster - 2.5k on Gumtree (ad might still be up)
Well, that sounds pretty decent, but how much of a bargain depends on which era they're from. From the early '90s on, Fenandes/Burnys aren't as good as the ones from the early '80s. I just saw this early '80s Burny on the mylespaul forum. One of the lowest end models from the early '80s, the RLG50, so it doesn't have veneer. Instead it has a "plain" maple cap. Just... wow...:

Must be one of the nicest tops I've ever seen...

singemonkey

vic wrote:

Must be one of the nicest tops I've ever seen...

Isn't it? Probably a two-piece back like a Gibson LP Classic, but still a gem. And I reckon it must have been scandalously cheap too. Probably not much more than a 2nd hand Epi. I've got to get a little fund together to hold for sweet MIJ deals like this.

I wish LP manufacturers would consider people who like really subtle figuring more. It's all flames, flames, flames. ?

I have to give Gibson credit for more interesting tops nowdays than the others. But even they seldom do really subtle stuff.

Rant over. Threadjack hopefully over.

vic

singemonkey wrote:
vic wrote:

Must be one of the nicest tops I've ever seen...
Isn't it? Probably a two-piece back like a Gibson LP Classic, but still a gem. And I reckon it must have been scandalously cheap too. Probably not much more than a 2nd hand Epi. I've got to get a little fund together to hold for sweet MIJ deals like this.

I wish LP manufacturers would consider people who like really subtle figuring more. It's all flames, flames, flames. ?

I have to give Gibson credit for more interesting tops nowdays than the others. But even they seldom do really subtle stuff.

Rant over. Threadjack hopefully over.

You see in the US it's all about MONSTER stuff....monster trucks, monster burgers, AND monster flame tops ! ?

singemonkey

I read this phenomenal, straight-out-of-spinal-tap quote from Yngwie Malmstein that went something like, "People are always saying that less is more. I don't believe that. Less is less. And more is more."

It's the cult of more = better. I don't like it. That's the principle behind '60s Japanese and Russian guitar design and it's unworthy of respectable makers.

Oh man. We are seriously derailing this thread now.