Does the pickguard effect the sound of an acoustic guitar?

Atmarama

Hey folks,

I've recently got my moms old Ibanez 683 hummingbird up and sorted after all these years. Somehow over time the pickguard came off and was lost. Now this little guitar (Grand concert "folk" size) has a really great sound, accented midrange but really very very nice. I ordered a hummingbird pickguard on ebay which has now arrived... Thing is, I was wondering, with a smaller guitar, and a large hummingbird pickguard, won't that detract from the quality of sound somewhat? How much will the tone be affected? Should I just leave it without one? It will look very beautiful with it though...

Also it has a metal and plastic adjustable saddle - how much will a bone saddle improve sound?

Thanks!

Bob-Dubery

Different saddle materials will effect tone.

I recently had one of my guitars converted from Tusq (artificial material, made by Graphtec) to warthog tusk.
See http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/new-nut-and-saddle/

In this case I supplied the uncut tusk, and the technician had to first cut blanks from that tusk and then fashion them into a saddle and a nut. There is, obviously, a charge for this. Was it worth it? Hell yes!

You may be able to find ready cut blanks somewhere, but there would still be some setting up to do.

Maybe a cheaper solution would be to fit a Graphtec Tusq saddle. Most stores will stock the blanks or be able to order them.

Atmarama

X-rated Bob wrote: Different saddle materials will effect tone.

I recently had one of my guitars converted from Tusq (artificial material, made by Graphtec) to warthog tusk.
See http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/new-nut-and-saddle/

In this case I supplied the uncut tusk, and the technician had to first cut blanks from that tusk and then fashion them into a saddle and a nut. There is, obviously, a charge for this. Was it worth it? Hell yes!

You may be able to find ready cut blanks somewhere, but there would still be some setting up to do.

Maybe a cheaper solution would be to fit a Graphtec Tusq saddle. Most stores will stock the blanks or be able to order them.

Thanks Bob... Thing is for now I am more concerned about the pickguard issue ie loosing sound quality because of pickguard - as it is really sounding very sweet with the original saddle (although I am considering changing it if it will make a very positive difference to tone... cheers

Bob-Dubery

It's possible that the finish where the scratchplate used to be has aged differently or less than the rest of the top. If that's the case then let's hope that your replacement pickguard is a little oversized, otherwise you may have a hard time getting a good looking job done.

aja

Some acoustic guitars come without pickguards. It will change the tone by adding weight and stiffness to the top, also depending on the type and amount of glue used.

If the guitar plays well I wouldn't change anything. Perhaps get a thin clear protective sticker instead, they can be bought at stewmac.com or locally...

Otherwise go mad and put it on! You will never know until you try. Perhaps someone could suggest a less permanent method of fixing it to the top?

DaFiz

I very much doubt that the sound would be negatively affected. :-\ It's an Ibanez copy that would've had a scratchplate on originally anyway.
It could be mounted temporarily with some easy to remove glue like ordinary Prittstick and if it does indeed effect the tone, (you would need to have superhuman hearing to notice the difference anyway)
it can easily be undone.
Without the scratchplate it's just an Ibanez Concord, with the sctrachplate it's a Hummingbird copy.

It's still never gonna be a Gibson Hummingbird :-[

Atmarama

DaFiz wrote: I very much doubt that the sound would be negatively affected.
It's still never gonna be a Gibson Hummingbird :-[

Ye thanks guys - will put it on - it will definitely look sweet! But this little guitar is really wonderful sounding. Because it has sentimental value (parents bought it in Greece in the early 80's) I probably wouldn't even swap it for a Gibson Hummingbird... To me it's a lot more than that. It's a folk size guitar with a beautiful tone!

DaFiz

Nothing wrong with the Ibanez... I'd have that guitar in my collection anyday.
It has to have the scratchplate... that's what makes it a Hummingbird ? ?

Atmarama

DaFiz wrote: Nothing wrong with the Ibanez... I'd have that guitar in my collection anyday.
It has to have the scratchplate... that's what makes it a Hummingbird ? ?

Fully - even if we loose an inch of sound quality...

Keira-WitherKay

Atmarama wrote:
DaFiz wrote: Nothing wrong with the Ibanez... I'd have that guitar in my collection anyday.
It has to have the scratchplate... that's what makes it a Hummingbird ? ?

Fully - even if we loose an inch of sound quality...

forget the tone loss from a scratch plate........ really the majority of tone ( sound quality) comes from your fingers ...... how you play ....... a god player can make a guitar with cardboard box glued to the top sound good.......... it looks a fabulous guitar just find it's sweet spots ad enjoy it ........

i truly believe way too many people( and i mean many ) fixate on the gear rather than on the technique and playing style . i believe the guitar must stay in tune and the intonation must be correct and offer a good action but beyond that rather focus on the playing that the gear

cos seriously i bet in a blind fold test you could not tell the difference between a guitar with a scratchplate and one without........... but one can hear the difference good player and a mediocre one immeadiatly with a blindfold.......

DaFiz

I seriously doubt the degree of sound loss a scratchplate would make to the acoustic guitar.
It could hardly be a fraction of a millimetre let alone an inch, considering that the manufacturer deemed it necessary in the first place to build it into their original product.
Even Gibsons and Martins have scratchplates on their acoustic guitars and you wish to suggest it could cost an inch of sound quality...? :-\

Atmarama

DaFiz wrote:
I seriously doubt the degree of sound loss a scratchplate would make to the acoustic guitar.
It could hardly be a fraction of a millimetre let alone an inch, considering that the manufacturer deemed it necessary in the first place to build it into their original product.
Even Gibsons and Martins have scratchplates on their acoustic guitars and you wish to suggest it could cost an inch of sound quality...? :-\

It depends on how heavy and thick the pickguard material is. Those mid-60's molded Hummingbird pickguards definitely had an impact on the tone, and not a good one, because they were so heavy and covered so much of the top.

Thanks for the responses....

Bob-Dubery

DaFiz wrote:
I seriously doubt the degree of sound loss a scratchplate would make to the acoustic guitar.
It could hardly be a fraction of a millimetre let alone an inch, considering that the manufacturer deemed it necessary in the first place to build it into their original product.
Even Gibsons and Martins have scratchplates on their acoustic guitars and you wish to suggest it could cost an inch of sound quality...? :-\

They're worried about selling guitars - not about sound quality. The two things are not the same. Think of those Gibson Everly Brothers jumbos - all that bling must have had an impact on sound. Everything you affix to the top of the guitar must have an impact on tone - even if only slightly - and the notion that just because some big manufacturer does something and so it must be good or, at least, not detrimental is not something I find convincing. Gibson, after all, stopped making Les Pauls. Martin stopped production of OMs at one point. Gibson and Fender both compromised quality in the interests of reducing production costs.

Atmarama

X-rated Bob wrote:
DaFiz wrote:
I seriously doubt the degree of sound loss a scratchplate would make to the acoustic guitar.
It could hardly be a fraction of a millimetre let alone an inch, considering that the manufacturer deemed it necessary in the first place to build it into their original product.
Even Gibsons and Martins have scratchplates on their acoustic guitars and you wish to suggest it could cost an inch of sound quality...? :-\
They're worried about selling guitars - not about sound quality. The two things are not the same. Think of those Gibson Everly Brothers jumbos - all that bling must have had an impact on sound. Everything you affix to the top of the guitar must have an impact on tone - even if only slightly - and the notion that just because some big manufacturer does something and so it must be good or, at least, not detrimental is not something I find convincing. Gibson, after all, stopped making Les Pauls. Martin stopped production of OMs at one point. Gibson and Fender both compromised quality in the interests of reducing production costs.

Ye for sure - I suppose it depends on the pickguard. A modern, thin plastic pickguard of normal size will probably have not so much detrimental effect tonewise. It's a different story, though, with a thick 60's vintage Hummingbird pickguard screwed into the top, like this one:

And let's not forget the previously mentioned Everly Brothers batwing pickguards!:

The pickguards I've shown above most definitely have an effect on the tone.

So do the inlaid pickguards found on ultra-fancy high end Martins, like this D-50 Koa right here:

or the little 12 fret parlor guitar Martin's Dick Boak is holding here:

A professional inlay artist named Bill Swank has said that the plastic of these inlaid pickguards has to be at least half again as thick as the plastic in the regular pickguards, because otherwise the inlaid pearl and abalone pieces would just pop loose as the top shifted a bit with the weather. So those inlaid pickguards can and do kill some tone, as well.

It's true that the top in the area where most pickguards go is relatively inactive, as you've stated. But put enough mass on there and it will kill some tone.

But the hummingbird is looking and still sounding like sweetness - pickguard on! ?

Atmarama

Thanks for all the nice responses guys!