Rights to your Music

Rob-dos

Hello.. Im trying to find out how the system of legal rights with regards to music works in South Africa and universally
Im not talking about SAMRO, im talking more specifically about in a band context where it comes to a song and the
input placed in it directly..

For instance iv heard that where a band makes a song, the bass and the drums are generally not involved in the sonwriting aspect
What are the legal implications of this? Is there a composing and a song rights credit and whats the difference? Who gets the credit?

If a member comes to practice with a song mapped out complete with stucture, melody and lyrics and all that is needed is drums, bass and lead
What would the first member be the holder of and what would the other members be entitled to?

If the rights do go to one of the members, what does that determine for the other existing members?
What other legal loopholes and jumps are there to know about in context of a band and its members?

From the little I know and have learnt it appears to be that composition/arrangement and lyrics determine the copyright owner
What happens from this, does that mean that the other members of the band have no rights to the song?

and a side question for SAMRO:
If one of the members happened to be a member already.. Do you need to start a new account based on the Bands Name or could you
file if under the name of the person who is already a member? What would the reprecussions be should it be under the band or members name?

Thanks

AlanRatcliffe

Legally it's whoever is listed as the composer. It can't be a band's name (band members change anyway), so it has to be in all the individual band member's names.

Who gets included as co-composer is up to the band - remember it's about the ownership rights to the lyrics and the melody, not the arrangement, so it's usually only one or two members. But if you feel that other band members have significantly aided you in writing the song, then you may list them as co-composers and they get a slice. There is also nothing to stop band members from having a private contract between themselves to specify the division of ownership of songs credited to all members.

DonovanB

Rob dos wrote: and a side question for SAMRO:
If one of the members happened to be a member already.. Do you need to start a new account based on the Bands Name or could you
file if under the name of the person who is already a member? What would the reprecussions be should it be under the band or members name?

SAMRO only deals with people, not bands. So you are a member of SAMRO as a person and you get royalties based on your personal involvement. You list songs in your names.

If you are worried about not earning royalties they have needletime rights now. Which means if you play on a recording you get assigned royalties.

Rob-dos

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Legally it's whoever is listed as the composer. It can't be a band's name (band members change anyway), so it has to be in all the individual band member's names.

Who gets included as co-composer is up to the band - remember it's about the ownership rights to the lyrics and the melody, not the arrangement, so it's usually only one or two members. But if you feel that other band members have significantly aided you in writing the song, then you may list them as co-composers and they get a slice. There is also nothing to stop band members from having a private contract between themselves to specify the division of ownership of songs credited to all members.

Thanks for the info Allen. So then what happens when it comes to the all important 'slice'
Say a band stays together and there are 4 members and 2 of them are composers and lyric writers,
how will money be divided during the subsistence of the band relationship without any contract relating thereto?

Donovan Banks wrote: SAMRO only deals with people, not bands. So you are a member of SAMRO as a person and you get royalties based on your personal involvement. You list songs in your names.
If you are worried about not earning royalties they have needletime rights now. Which means if you play on a recording you get assigned royalties.

Thanks for the Help Donovan. What route would we then have to take?
Hmm so do you then join individually as each single member? How is the song then registered?
I have an acquaintance who said his band became a member, I suppose he was talking hogwash then

Sorry for the multitude of questions, we have just finished recording and we would like to sort out legal issues out seeing as 3 of us
in the band are law students and we think that way.. sadly this subject isnt touched upon in detail in law classes

DonovanB

No these questions must be asked. SAMRO is a very confusing organisation. I have tried writing an article on how to get it done but there are so many questions that need answering...

Rob dos wrote: Thanks for the info Allen. So then what happens when it comes to the all important 'slice'
Say a band stays together and there are 4 members and 2 of them are composers and lyric writers,
how will money be divided during the subsistence of the band relationship without any contract relating thereto?

That should be discussed and decided upon by the band. The Beatles had whoever wrote the song as the composer, so John and Paul made more money than the others. U2 have an agreement where they all earn equal money so theirs is everyone.

You're going to have to decide on that yourselves.

Each member submits a membership application form. Thereafter you submit all your songs using the Notification of works form. This form is confusing. Here you enter the names of the people who wrote the lyrics, melody and arranged it, which generally would be the band.

If you run into trouble with any of the forms feel free to ask questions, there are a few members here who have gone through the process and can help. ?

Rob-dos

Thanks alot there Donovan.
Is there an alternative to SAMRO? iv only heard not the best things.
Is there a group that would take less time to accept you as a member and less time helping you out as well as paying you?

Another question for the masses:
If someone pays for the recording, what form of ownership, if any do they then have?

DonovanB

I wouldn't worry much about SAMRO. There are others but SAMRO appears to have the best reach.

Rob dos wrote: Another question for the masses:
If someone pays for the recording, what form of ownership, if any do they then have?

Again this should be discussed before hand. While most studios will keep a copy as backup, you need to contract it with whoever is paying. Most people will allow the band to retain ownership in certain conditions. In Fact I am going through this same issue now as someone else is paying for a recording of my band. I am drawing up a small contract with some T&C's

There is a heap load of admin to make a band operate properly.

Rob-dos

Thanks again Donovan, your help is really appreciated.

Cool think SAMRO is the way to go then, how long does it usually take to become a member?

So im assuming then that if no contract were to be drawn up then the person paying for the recordings
would be owner of those recordings and could derive cashflow from them but he wont particularly own
the rights to the music...
Can be a situation to get around...

DonovanB

If no agreement was made, then no agreement was made. Get some sort of agreement going, even if verbal... Don't leave it out in the air, thats dangerous and can get ugly in a dispute.

you only become a member of SAMRO once they approve you. Which is quite a process but basically until you start earning royalties. You will still be able to submit music to them and all the necessary forms and they will let you know when your membership has been approved.

Rob-dos

Cool, what you say is true. I'll get to work on it. Think I might have to spend time in the law library getting some finder details combed out.
Thank you very much for your time Donovan, you have helped a great deal. Now just to spend some time on this and then SAMRO haha.. ???