Converting from steel strings to nylon

Bob-Dubery

Here's a thought that popped into my head in an idle moment since none of y'all did the decent thing and bough my Smoothtalker.

What if put nylon strings on that puppy?

If you look inside a Smoothtalker you will notice that the bracing is very light. Because of the way they are built there is very little stress on the top. The bracing is for tone, not for strength. So I'd bet that the top of steel-string Smoothtalker is just the same as the top of a nylon-string smoothtalker, and so it won't be the case that the nylon strings can't drive the top.

So that leaves us with the following considerations
1) Fitting the strings. Well it's a trapeze tailpiece, so I think there'll be a way to sort that one out.
2) Fingerboard width. Mine is the same width at the nut as my Morgan - 1 3/4 inches.
3) Scale length. Can't quote you the exact figure, but I recall that it's exactly 1/2 way between a Les Paul and a Strat.
4) Neck curvature - well it has an adjustable truss rod.

Sanity may prevail eventually, but in the meantime your thoughts and comments would be welcome and, I am sure, enlightening.

Keira-WitherKay

i have seen a seagull steel converted to nylon and it sounded great .............. and if you not a traditional classical/flamenco player the thin neck is easier to get used to.........

however if you do that to your smoothtalker you will have to install a new pickup system voiced for nylon .......... and 2nd the bracing on a nylon is very different and the nylons are designed differently for tone........... i knowblack bird guitars make a travel guitar in steel and nylon and the nylon needs a different design cos the tone required is different .it's not just the necks that are different ............

but hey try it all it'll do is cost you a set of nylon strings.small price to pay if you keen on a nylon and happy with narrow non traditional neck i say go for it .............

Bob-Dubery

Keira WitherKay wrote: however if you do that to your smoothtalker you will have to install a new pickup system voiced for nylon .......... and 2nd the bracing on a nylon is very different and the nylons are designed differently for tone...........

I know that. It's the case with, say, one of your brazilian classicals Vs my Morgan. But the Smoothtalkers are so different in so many respects and when I've been to Mervyn Davis's workshop I've never noticed any other way of bracing 'talker tops - and he makes nylon string models. Which doesn't amount to absolute proof, but given that the steel string smoothtalkers are fan braced (and very lightly) I'd be surprised to see the nylons being that different.

But as you say... it's the cost of a packet of strings.

Ray

2 things:

1. will the top respond good to the nylon strings?
2. dont you need ball ends?

Keira-WitherKay

Ray wrote: 2 things:

2. dont you need ball ends?

nylon strings now come out in ball end versions ...............and a few manufacturers make em so there is some choice.............

aja

I believe there are ball end nylon strings available.

But the nylon gauges are different to steel and so is the tension - hence the intonation will be out IMO

Bob-Dubery

Ray wrote: 2 things:

1. will the top respond good to the nylon strings?
2. dont you need ball ends?

Uncle Ray!

First the top. Take a good look at a Smoothtalker. First notice how little stress there is on the top. No connection between neck and top, and a tail piece anchored to the sides (which are like 3/4 inch thick on a 'talker).

Now the other side of the top (this is not my guitar, but my guitar is braced exactly the same)

So the tops are lightly braced and I think will be responsive (and as I said, I suspect the tops are the same for steel and nylon string 'talkers).

Also consider that tail piece. Plenty of room there to tie the knots for nylon strings.

DonovanB

Ah, will the strings fit on the tuners?

Bob-Dubery

I was wondering about that Don. The gatjies are certainly big enough. Also the tuners on mine are not the standard Smoothtalker issue (I asked for Schallers to be fitted) and there's quite a lot of shaft above the peg head.

AlanRatcliffe

I don't see a problem with anything else, but the tuners probably will be a biggie. Nylon tuners have larger capstans so they wind faster and hold lots more string, which is needed because of the way nylon strings stretch. May be worth a try, but you're going to have to keep the windings to an absolute minimum and even then I'm not sure if you'll be able to get enough windings on to tune properly.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I don't see a problem with anything else, but the tuners probably will be a biggie. Nylon tuners have larger capstans so they wind faster and hold lots more string, which is needed because of the way nylon strings stretch. May be worth a try, but you're going to have to keep the windings to an absolute minimum and even then I'm not sure if you'll be able to get enough windings on to tune properly.

Ah! THanks. This was the one little voice nagging away in the back of my mind. The steel and nylon string 'talkers all look so similar BUT the nylon strings always have the slot head and the different tuners.

nussey

this thread got me looking at the mervyn davis website again and if you take a look at the nylons there the bottom two have fairly small upright tuners? i dunno, its the first time i've seen nylons with tuners like that? so maybe it'l work work?

Keira-WitherKay

nussey wrote: this thread got me looking at the mervyn davis website again and if you take a look at the nylons there the bottom two have fairly small upright tuners? i dunno, its the first time i've seen nylons with tuners like that? so maybe it'l work work?

those are actually traditional wooden pegs which many flamenco players still use....... almost same as on violin..one pulls them out ..tunes the string and push's them back into position............. so thats for the purists......... ?

Bob-Dubery

anyhoo.... I didn't do it in the end.

1) Advice from several people who know better that it wasn't going to stay in tune because of the machine heads

2) I still want to sell it, so I think I should minimise any buggering around.