Are all guitars created equal?

flatfourfan

I'm refering to two same make guitars, the same model, same parts. But different body construction.

I've got two Ibanez gio's, both have the same hardware on it, but one has a mahogany body while the other is Alder or agathis (sp?). Both have identical necks, but the GRGM that I got last night, plays a hell of a lot nicer, better sustain, better sound and just plays nicer.

What gives, does the wood used on the body make that much of a difference on what is basically two identical guitars?

Bob-Dubery

The woods DO have an effect on the sound. Believe your ears!

Not just body wood, but neck wood, fingerboard wood....

But that doesn't explain the differences in playability.

To cut to the chase: Guitars are NOT created equal. Even if your two guitars had same woods, same finish, absolutely identifical specifications, you might still find differences between them.

That's why if you decide that, say, the Fender Bobocaster is the guitar for you (and who wouldn't make such a choice?) you still want to try as many examples as you can get your hands on because there will be differences between the theoretically identical guitars.

Also, in a case like yours, setup and who did the setup would make a difference. Your guitars may have been setup by different technicians, or to different requirements.

DonovanB

I find I much prefer a maple neck and Rosewood fretboard. Anything else feels funny and doesn't play as well.

flatfourfan

X-rated Bob wrote: The woods DO have an effect on the sound. Believe your ears!

Not just body wood, but neck wood, fingerboard wood....

But that doesn't explain the differences in playability.

To cut to the chase: Guitars are NOT created equal. Even if your two guitars had same woods, same finish, absolutely identifical specifications, you might still find differences between them.

That's why if you decide that, say, the Fender Bobocaster is the guitar for you (and who wouldn't make such a choice?) you still want to try as many examples as you can get your hands on because there will be differences between the theoretically identical guitars.

Also, in a case like yours, setup and who did the setup would make a difference. Your guitars may have been setup by different technicians, or to different requirements.

I think that you're spot on. I've even found out that even though a body is mahogany, the quality and cut can make a HUGE difference even if the wood used is the same.

Playability in this case seems to be down to who's set it up as both guitars were not set up by the same person and also set up for 2 different people to play it, I love the fact that making a few changes can change the playability of the instrument........lol. I think that this is the main reson that these two guitars play and feel totally different, this is a groundbreaking day for this noob by the way in case you didn't notice.

AlanRatcliffe

+1 to everything Bob said.

If you want, try swapping the bodies between the two guitars and seeing how you like it. I've found that while the tonal character changes with different body woods, the quality of tone and much of the playability tends to follow the neck. As with bodies, two identical necks can sound completely different.

Keira-WitherKay

thats why in my opinion and in many others ...if you look hard enough and search the cheapie guitars and copies..........one quite often finds gems.......... and i'm talking construction here NOT PUPS cos budget PUPS will always be that ....... but if you find the guitar that feels great and has great sustain just change the PUPS and you have a descent guitar for minimal monies........keep a look out for old mid priced 70/80's guitars they were built way beyond the quality of modern economy builds......and one can pick em up cheap .... and a few mods and a setup can make em pro standard guitars (meaning you get good enough tone that you could play it at a pro gig )

MikeM

I have 2 similar Epiphones that have completely different characters so yea, I think it makes a difference.

Bob-Dubery

Keira WitherKay wrote: thats why in my opinion and in many others ...if you look hard enough and search the cheapie guitars and copies..........one quite often finds gems..........

Absoloodely. Because their QC isn't so great and their tolerances a bit more liberal. But that means you could get a real dog or a very nice guitar, depending on how the tolerances of the individual components go.

What I do believe about the cheapies though is that they're not necessarily a loooooong term proposition. Certainly as regards steel string flat tops with their greater stresses on them. Good guitars are made to come apart with out too much difficulty! You can take an old Martin, steam the neck out and do a reset because they use old-fashioned animal hide based glues. OTOH a friend of mine recently got a 30 year old Yamaha that does sound really, really good, but because of the cheaper glue they used during construction it's a lot more work to separate the neck from the body and so he's had to have the bridge shaved down instead - which isn't an ideal solution. There were options, but they required a lot more effort and thus cost more, and in some cases would have resulted in the neck being converted to a bolt-on.

SvR65

My take on this:

Besides the fact that two identical guitars will be diferent because of what all you guys have mentioned already, I think it's a good thing that they DO differ from one another... Because if they were EXACTLY the same, played the same and sounded the same then what is the point in that?!

What I would do in this situation is to try get the most out of both of them. You say the one plays nicer... well why don't you spend some time on the one that doesn't play as nice, work on it and see if you can't improve playability and tone... That way you've got two guitars, and both play nice!!

So you'd actually want to play both!! ?

flatfourfan

SvR65 wrote: My take on this:

Besides the fact that two identical guitars will be diferent because of what all you guys have mentioned already, I think it's a good thing that they DO differ from one another... Because if they were EXACTLY the same, played the same and sounded the same then what is the point in that?!

What I would do in this situation is to try get the most out of both of them. You say the one plays nicer... well why don't you spend some time on the one that doesn't play as nice, work on it and see if you can't improve playability and tone... That way you've got two guitars, and both play nice!!

So you'd actually want to play both!! ?

What's the deciding factor about this is that the new one does everything that the old one does, it just does it better, feels smoother and I can do it faster and cleaner. I already have a friend that wants the old one, so I don't really want to hold onto 2 gio's.

Should be going tonight if all pans out. I'm still on the look out for a double locking set-up if anyone knows of one going for sale that's not too pricey. I may just end up going to fleabay.

BMU

In addition to what everyone said: there's also the matter of statistical variance, which is small for high end guitars with good QC and large for low end guitars, like a GIO. The difference between any two R30,000 J Customs or ESPs would be smaller than the difference between any two R2000 GIO's on average.

But yes even high quality guitars do vary, not arguing against that.

Malkav

Keira WitherKay wrote: keep a look out for old mid priced 70/80's guitars they were built way beyond the quality of modern economy builds

Only if they're Japanese and from a brand that has a good reputation for quality - The Fenders and Gibsons of this era were going through the realities of having accountants decide their specs, which is to say that every penny was saved and with a lot of them you could feel it in a bad way. Thankfully the accountants have moved out of Fender and they're making some absolutely amazing guitars again in all price ranges, unfortunately as many may know the accountants have yet to move out of Gibson.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Chad-Kroeger-Blackwater-Les-Paul.aspx - A fine example.

Quite often in South Africa you can pick up original RG550s for about R6000 and you could definitly argue most people down from there, if you're looking for a Double Locking Tremolo system you'll pretty much never find a finer guitar. They originally came with the Edge Pro bridge which to this day is pretty much considered to be the best variety of locking trem you can get, also they had super thin shredder necks (18mm-21/22?mm I think) which makes them pretty easy to play and provided you get one that was in the hands of someone who had even a remote concept of what they were doing the build quality would probably be flawless. I say this because some people do silly things to trems and actually in a lot of cases can give the guitars issues through attempting to fiddle with things they didn't fully understand, however they were made incredibly well and if you can find one it'd be a great find. Of course if you wanted to be a little more pedantic I'd recommend trying to find a RG750 which has a matching headstock colour and came with a lo-pro trem, which is as good as the Edge Pro IMO and it's lower profile so it's more comfortable. The pickups were also pretty decent, though admittedly about 90% of Ibanez guitars these days have horrible stock pickups.

Keira-WitherKay

Chad Adam Browne wrote:
Keira WitherKay wrote: keep a look out for old mid priced 70/80's guitars they were built way beyond the quality of modern economy builds
Only if they're Japanese and from a brand that has a good reputation for quality - The Fenders and Gibsons of this era were going through the realities of having accountants decide their specs, which is to say that every penny was saved and with a lot of them you could feel it in a bad way. Thankfully the accountants have moved out of Fender and they're making some absolutely amazing guitars again in all price ranges, unfortunately as many may know the accountants have yet to move out of Gibson.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Chad-Kroeger-Blackwater-Les-Paul.aspx - A fine example.

Quite often in South Africa you can pick up original RG550s for about R6000 and you could definitly argue most people down from there, if you're looking for a Double Locking Tremolo system you'll pretty much never find a finer guitar. They originally came with the Edge Pro bridge which to this day is pretty much considered to be the best variety of locking trem you can get, also they had super thin shredder necks (18mm-21/22?mm I think) which makes them pretty easy to play and provided you get one that was in the hands of someone who had even a remote concept of what they were doing the build quality would probably be flawless. I say this because some people do silly things to trems and actually in a lot of cases can give the guitars issues through attempting to fiddle with things they didn't fully understand, however they were made incredibly well and if you can find one it'd be a great find. Of course if you wanted to be a little more pedantic I'd recommend trying to find a RG750 which has a matching headstock colour and came with a lo-pro trem, which is as good as the Edge Pro IMO and it's lower profile so it's more comfortable. The pickups were also pretty decent, though admittedly about 90% of Ibanez guitars these days have horrible stock pickups.

+1 .......... to previous post ........

cos i'm old enough to have played pro in 80's and in that time no one wanted a fender or les paul.......... so yeah everyone wanted ibanez and various other pointy /floyd rose equipped shred guitars ........ jackson was big ...and hamer too .. thats before they brought out all their cheaper ranges............. but truly ibanez in the 80's ruled.........and almost every pro band i worked in the guitarist had a top end ibanez.......and they were incredible ..so yeah as chad says if you find an old ibanez from that era they awesome ........ and on the acoustic side ...... all my nylons i use pro 4 of them are all 70's builds..... 2x brazillian ,1x japanese and 1x taiwan made and they all even the taiwan made one sound incredible..........

but the thread is really about finding the same models of guitars that sound different ......... and yeah even among the acoustics........ it's the same ....... if i walk into a store and see 4 identical models of any manufacturer hanging there ...... i will bet top dollar every one is different and sometimes the difference is huge .......