Started renovating my Ibanez Artist 12 string today

DonRoos

?I found some fretting wire today and came home to start re-fretting my old vintage Ibanez Artist 12-string. Not as difficult as I thought it may be and I managed to complete the job. I will now remove the nut (it is glued in so might need to be chisled out) and will then get a new nut, bridge and tuning head to complete the makeover.

?I noticed that there are a few dings in the top and on the head and wondered if there is a technique for cleaning out the dirt that has accumulated in these holes and fill them with clear laquour? Is there a particulour laquour that I can get that will match?

???Once I have completed the maintenance, I want to sort out the electronics. I fited the guitar with a Fleischman pickup when it was quite new still but the output is rather low and very tinny. I would like to build in a pre-amp similar to the ones in modern guitars and wonder where I might find one of these. Perhaps someone has a damaged guitar that I can strip for the electronics?

Gearhead

Dings in the top might be steamed out depending on how deep they are. The simple method is to remove all lacquer with a scraper or similar, put a piece of wet cloth into the ding and heat with a soldering iron. Specialised equipment can be bought but this ought to work.

The preamp (I guess you are talking about a Fishman?) is not the only thing that has improved over the past years. You might consider getting a new undersaddle piezo as well. Modern ones are a lot less piezo sounding and often come packaged with electronics. If you want to go the simple route, they also have preamps that go in the jack socket so you do not have to open up the sides of your guitar.

singemonkey

We want pics... ?

AlanRatcliffe

Aside from cleaning out the dirt (which does involve scraping and sanding), matching lacquer colour to old, yellowed lacquer is a bit of an art, involving mixing amber tints with the new finish to match the old one and dropfilling any dings. I wouldn't worry too much or, if it was bad enough, would consider a complete refinish.

I think I have a Fishman Matrix Natural 1 preamp sans pickup lurking somewhere. I'll look and let you know. That's the model with no controls that's mounted on the inside of the guitar on the endpin jack socket (I have one in my own acoustic). Failing that, Keira is selling a Baggs Gigpro in the classifieds that would work well as an external preamp/DI. Gearhead is right though - you can get an entire system that will outperform your old piezo crystal pickup - the pickups have advanced since the old Fishman AGX-125 (which is likely what you've got - wrapped in blue foil).

DonRoos

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the Gig Pro but it does little more than the home made pre-amp I built back then. These external boxes tend to get in the way and there are extra connections to get dirty. I am particularly interested in a unit that has hi,mid, low, bright, vol controls like the one in my Cort. A tuner may be nice too.

I guess the old AGX-125 is really out of date and should be replaced as a complete kit. What kits are readily available in SA (CT preferably) and what would you guys recommend? I have looked in places like Bothners and have not seen any units readily on offer. Back when I bought mine, they had a whole cabinet with different options but I guess most new guitars come with them built in now. I am really out of touch and would appreciate advice so that I put in something that adds value and I dont feel sorry the week after.

The guitar is now completely stipped down and ready for nut, bridge, headgear but I want to do the electronics before sorting out the bridge and setting the action as the new piezo will affect this.

As soon as it is put together I will post pics. I will take pics of all my kit and post is as I have been meaning to do this since I joined.

AlanRatcliffe

I know the B-Band and the L R Baggs product lines are available locally. Fishman seem to be scarce these days - especially around Cape Town. Ask Gareth at Marshall Music what they currently have available or can get.

DonRoos

Thanks to all the advise I decided to look round for a whoile new pickup today while buying a new bridge, nut and gear. I could not find any better gear that what was already on the guitar so skipped that. Got the nut and bridge and then found a Fishman Classic 4T pickup and preamp kit so bought it on the spot. It is identical to the one in my Cort so I shall not get confused when swapping guitars. Rushed home and spent the day installing said bridge, nut and pickup. It was a nervouse moment drilling the hole for the socket and cutting the slot for the amp but I took it slow and made no mistakes. I would have hated to damage the guitar as I have had it so long it is part of the family.

The result is a resounding success! The pickup is MUCH better that the old pietzo that was in there and I now have much fuller tone. Just what I had in mind with all the tone controls and tuner built in. Just had a quick jam with it plugged in and I am over the moon.

I need to set the action a bit lower but will let everything settle first. I want to see if the new pietzo which was round will flatten out with some pressure on it first.

Now, about those photos!

Gearhead

Before you go and sand down the saddle, try to determine if the string to string balance is right. Some people insist that on 6 string acoustics the B string tends to be too heavy and they file a bit off the bottom of the saddle underneath the offending string. This might be very different with your 12 string set, however - just wanted to say you have the option.

DonRoos

Photos posted on "YOUR Gear" as promised

DonRoos

Monday I took about 3mm off the bridge and am now able to use the screw adjusters to set the level optimally. Instantly the action was improved , especially at the 12th fret but it was still heavy at the top of the neck so tonight I took 1mm of the bottom of the nut and the action is now perfect. I can look at individual string action now but the feel is now superb so am not expecting any radical improvement. It makes a change tuning the guitar with a built in pickup, it certainly speads up the process. I can't wait to try it on my amp tomorrow (too late tonight, wife has gone to bed already)

Next, I will tackle the Ibanez electric and see what needs doing. I particularly want to get the MIDI working again, just need a MIDI port on my PC/laptop.

I really enjoyed this re-build and am now considering building a guitar from scratch. That must be the ultimate challenge. I don't have a nylon string so that is a possibility. Any ideas on finding plans?

AlanRatcliffe

Good to hear. It's one of the adjustable bridge models then - any problems getting the pickup in the slot? They can be a bit bright with a pickup at the best of times, so it's good you fitted the preamp.

I like grooving the octave slots in the nut lower than usual so that the bottoms of the strings are the same level as the other string in each course - makes fretting a lot easier. I do the reverse at the saddle, grooving for the normal strings so the tops are the same height as the octaves, which makes it easier to hit both strings when fingerpicking.

Stewmac has everything you would need as far as plans and some very good books for nylon string guitars.

DonRoos

Hi Alan,
I had previously drilled a small vertical hole in the bridge slot for the AGX-125 so all I had to do was put a slightly bigger drill bit through at an angle to accomodate the new pickup that had the cable coming straight out of the piezo. I did not want too much of a bend that might cause the cable to break. I then had to extend the small hole in the top to accomodate the cable at the new position and angle with a kehole file. The new piezo with the pre-amp has a much warmer tone than the old AGX-125 and I am VERY happy with it. I don't even have to push the lows & mids to make it sound great.

When I look at individual string action I will keep in mind your suggestions but I am used to playing the strings together and at different heights so will probably not adjust the bridge end but will certainly look at the top.

Is stewmac one of the forum members? I found another thread with two links (posted by yourself if I am not mistaken, one to G.A.I.) and have seen a plan that I might like to build. However, I need to be sure that I can get all the required parts before commencing. Is there a Luthier supplier in SA? I would particularly need the required wood (preferably split) for back and top and perhaps some exotic woods to make it worth while. I don't want to build something I can buy from the local music store for R800. I would also buy a pre made fretboard as I would have difficulty in getting the frets accurately marked. I would also like to make the guitar unique and artistic through inlays and edging and would need the necessary material (pearl, etc.). Having retired early, I have a lot of free time (between the odd photo shoot and tour). I once owned a Fender nylon string for a few months and sold it to afford my Ibanez electric.

AlanRatcliffe

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Stewart MacDonald's guitar shop - http://www.stewmac.com/ - a good source for tools and materials. Another site you should look at (especially for acoustic wood supplies and kits) is Luthier's Mercantile - http://lmii.com . Sorry nothing local.

Actually for a first build, take a look at the kits available at both sites. An easy way to get started with the tougher stuff already done (sides bent, fret slots cut, etc.) and a better wood quality than you will usually be able to get locally.

I often used to fit the AG125s the same way in the adjustable bridges as it was a cheaper install, but ideally (for tonal reasons) you remove the adjustable section entirely, fill with rosewood and rout a new slot. It's not a difficult job to do the way you have if you're careful and have some common sense, but I've still seen quite a few bungled jobs - usually from guys squeezing the 3.2mm transducer version into a 2.8mm slot or simply breaking the earth from the pickup with rough handling.