Pedals vs Amps

Satriani

Ok...this where I get to talk like a n00b (which I am when it comes to pedals as I've hated them most of my guitar playing life).

Anybody with knowledge on this PLEASE let me know the differences I am looking for?

Lets say you buy a 30w Marshall/Laney/Fender transistor amp. now obviously it has an overdrive button, and that is the distortion you will get out of it. After tweaking it to the sound you most like that it's capable of, I have never understood the big hoohaa with Valve amps. EVERYBODY who goes and spend big bucks on a massive head and decent speakers ends up getting some sort of OD pedal while using only the clean channel on their rediuclously priced amp. Now...you get a pretty cool distortion from a little transistor amp, no pedal needed.

From what I understand, people buy expensive heads not for their clean channel, but for the quality and sound/tone of their overdrive. If everybody uses a pedal and uses the amp clean, what is the point of buying that particular amp?

A simple example.... I played through a JSX amp on it's OD channel. IT was awesome to say the least. I then went and stuck the Satchurator into to, and changed the amp to clean, and there is [practically no difference.

ralley

Hey Satch,
Very often with a Valve/Tube amp you use a pedal to actually overdrive the input stages of the amp itself. In this case the pedal imparts some of it's sonic qualities but the majority of the tone comes from the amp itself. The tone produced by overdriving the input of a solid state amp is often not as pleasing. When going heavier (i.e. distortion rather than overdrive) the pedal does start to play a bigger part in the overall sound.

Many players claim that valve amps are more dynamic - they respond differently depending on your guitar volume and how hard you pick, a good pedal preserves this characteristic. This enables the player to change his sound with the guitar volume control and picking technique. I love playing the live intro to Rainbow's "16th Century Greensleeves", goes from delicate acoustic type tone to over the top edge of feedback crashing power chords with just a roll of the volume knob (I use set-up 3 below).

In my case I have a 2 channel valve amp with a couple of different pedals (boost, overdrive, distortion, fuzz). This gives me the following sorts of tones with just a foot press and no knob fiddling:

1) Clean(ish) - Amp on clean channel, no pedals
2) Light overdrive - Amp on clean channel with boost pedal (sparkle boost)
3) Moderate-Heavy Overdrive - Amp on clean channel with overdrive pedal (tube screamer clone)
4) Distortion - Amp on clean channel with distortion pedal (Boss turbo overdrive with turbo on)
5) Heavy distortion - Amp on distortion channel, no pedals, EQ in effects loop
6) Fuzz - Amp on clean channel, fuzz pedal (Fuzz Face clone)

Disclaimer: I play like crap but I've only ever owned valve amps.

Cheers, Rob.

Satriani

I get you 100%. I didn't actually want to use the word overdrive in my message, but I thought some beginners may not know the difference between overdrive and distortion. I have never liked the sound of overdrive. Maybe one of the main reasons I can't stomach the sound of alot of 'legends' who used/use that sound. I am a distortion junkie. IT must still have tone of course, not just crunch crunch crunch, but a nice high end sound with enough bottom and mid end to give a nic warm tone for some sustain and vibrato. If you've ever listened to Satch, that is the sound I am referring to on most of his tracks.

What you said towards the end is exactly the type of thing I mean. You basically use pedals for 90% of the sound u want, and the distortion on the amp is rarely used. God knows we can't use amp distortion plus a distortion pedal. Dig the sound sometimes, but you can't control the feedback sadly.

I dunno....maybe I need to mature and just end my love affair with transistor amps ☹

Mr-M

Satriani wrote: A simple example.... I played through a JSX amp on it's OD channel. IT was awesome to say the least. I then went and stuck the Satchurator into to, and changed the amp to clean, and there is practically no difference.

Don't know about that one, mate.
I've played both of 'em and I'd say that although the OD on the Satchurator and the OD on the JSX's three channels can sound very similar (depending on settings and they are both Satriani signatures of course), the amp is far more variable in tone than the pedal. Basically the amp has active tone controls (3-band EQ) which already gives you way more possible tonal variations than the single tone knob on the Satchurator.
Besides that, the JSX's tone is warmer, fatter, less fizzy on the top end and capable of even more variety than the pedal (which is capable of a lot as it is). It's probably one of the best amps I've ever played because of the sheer variety of sounds and how fat it sounds at the same time while doing all that. The clean is one of the better clean tones around IMO as well.
One important thing about this amp though that I've noticed on the occasions I've played them: You have to crank the volume for it to sound like it should. At low volume it can sound quite flat and lifeless. That figures though because it is 120W, so to get the power amp tubes cooking properly you need to turn it up. I can understand that because you're used to transistor amps, you might not have been aware of that and played it at more store friendly volumes. When you open the amp up properly you will hear a significant difference, guaranteed.

NorioDS

Cool, thanks for the great info, Mr M. I'm loving it!

What do you think of the smaller Peavey JSX amps? I'd be keen on getting one of those or a combo. (Head and stack together is called a combo right?)

AlanRatcliffe

Just to put this into perspective Satriani: Overdrive/fuzz/distortion pedals were originally used because amps were not designed to distort. In the bad old days, you had to turn everything up full and ideally use a guitar with humbuckers that could better overload the amp. To fill the gap in the market, the first pedal designers started making pedals that could distort by themselves and then be amplified by the relatively clean amplifiers. It was also discovered that while these pedals were fairly harsh sounding, the valve amplifiers smoothed out the rough edges, making them easier to listen to (if you've ever heard a Fuzz Face plugged directly into a PA, you know what I'm talking about ?).

You'll also notice that many of the classic players used pedals like the DS-1 and the Tube Screamer more as a volume boost to kick these recalcitrant amps onto their own overdrive rather than adding much distortion from the pedal itself.

In more recent times, designers started making amps more capable of overdriving on their own and with higher levels of gain. Also, solid state technology moved on and transistors became more and more capable of smoother sounding distortions and eventually even with the ability to simulate the sound of an overdriven amp pretty accurately. Of course, this all didn't stop players from using both together and going for even more distortion. ?

I think most players use their drive pedals to give them a variety of sounds - if you choose a pedal that has a different tone to your amp, it effectively doubles the number of channels you have. Choosing a pedal that sounds like an overdriven Marshall and plugging it into the front of a Marshall is just silly. ?

While it's been many years since I've used valve amps, they do have a certain feel when playing them, and no solid state amp or modeller has ever reproduced that 100%. It's getting closer, but we're not there yet.

Mr-M

Norio wrote: What do you think of the smaller Peavey JSX amps? I'd be keen on getting one of those or a combo. (Head and stack together is called a combo right?)

I've played the Peavey JSX Head as well as the 2x12 Combo (yup, you were right Norio - amp + speaker in one cabinet = combo) on a few occasions. The combo is the preferred option IMO. Much more portable and has a half power switch (which you don't get on the head) for 60W as well as 120W operation. This allows you to get the quality tones at relatively lower volumes (and like I said you have to crank it to get it sounding like it should) , but even set to 60W it's still very loud. At 120W it's seriously LOUD! Quite heavy (in weight) for a combo, but not nearly as weighty a beast as the head and cab. Unless you playing live - and bigger gigs at that - even the 2x12 Combo will be too loud for most purposes. Except if you like harrassing your neighbours... ?

Never tried the JSX Mini Colossal studio amp. Don't know if these are available in SA, 'cos I've never seen one or heard of anyone who has one.

@Alan - you're 100% right on the money with everything you've said here!

NorioDS

Thanks again, M ?

I've only seen a video (or heard a recording, can't recall) of Satch playing the Mini Colossal and it sounded so sweet but, then, I'm sure Satch playing on my Starfire would sound sweet ?

Guy-Onraet

I'm one of those people who used solid-state amps and distortion pedals for the longest time, then played a tube amp and had to have one. ?

My experience after now owning a tube amp for a while is:

1) The dynamics are completely missing when using a distortion pedal or a solid-state amp (basically, you have drive on or off) while with a tube amp, your picking attack and technique determines how clean or dirty your sound is.

2) A tube amp doesn't need lots of gain/drive to sustain for a long time.

3) Pushing the power stage of a tube amp is where you find "that tone", and not by running the drive on full and the volume on 1.

4) A tube amp is much more sensitive to the volume and tone controls on your guitar, as well as your pick-up configuration.

I ran my old Boss MT2 into the clean channel of my Laney Lionheart and there really are no dynamics at all. The tubes seemed to round the sound off a bit like Alan said, but it's not like the drive channel (plus IMHO, the MT2 is the antithesis of good tone ?)

I guess it’s down to personal taste and what you’re trying to achieve.

At the moment I’m into setting my amp so that it’s just starting to break-up (maybe a little more drive), then hitting it harder for more dirt and turning down the volume on the guitar for a cleaner sound. No OD pedal ?

NorioDS

I'm hardly experienced when it comes to tube amps but I played Francis' (Peavey?) once and noticed a SERIOUS difference.

The biggest thing, for me, which has been noted by others already, is the "feel" the amp produces. Depending on how you play each note, attack the strings, etc, you get totally different response than what you get with a solid-state amp.

I love solid-state distortion and things, especially considering it's all I know but I reckon tube is more responsive to the player. Your audience might not ever notice but you will and that should elevate your playing to a new level.

My humble 2c.