Where to swot sound-engineering?

Jay-Pee

Hey guys…

I am doing research on where to go and study sound-engineering, with specific emphasis on the live- and recording side of things, and it would be really nice if anyone has a proposal… I already know about Cape Audio College, and I am hoping for this institution to be as close to Stellenbosch as possible, but the location doesn’t really matter. I am hoping to obtain a degree and not just a diploma, but that doesn’t really matter either….

Manfred-Klose

Hey jp here is some famous zappa quotes:

"If you want to get laid go to college, if you want an education go to the library "- Frank Zappa

There is a college in durbanville, but dont think they give out diplomas, only certificates.
But at the end its not about where you study, its about the combined knowledge and experienence one gains.

Cape Audio College is good, but they are more aimed at studio stuff and not live sound.
They dont work in the industry, so they dont always know what is going on out there.

Vintage-Vibe

Having been to one of the afore-mentioned colleges, all I can say is make sure the establishment is PART OF THE WESTERN
CAPE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT !
If any problems arise (and they do) the school/college etc must have a higher body that they are held accountable to.

Make sure you tell each place you check out what your focus is in the industry (as MK said, diff places are focused on diff things - live sound, studio recording, video editing etc ...) and find out how much experience is required with sound "knowledge" & gear etc - some places make the assumption that you have been "around the block" already - not so for many just out of school etc ...
Good luck !

VV

AlanRatcliffe

Vintage Vibe wrote: Having been to one of the afore-mentioned colleges, all I can say is make sure the establishment is PART OF THE WESTERN
CAPE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT !

Good point! I'd probably say The City Varsity course is one of the better ones: Koos Turenhout and Simon "Fuzzy" Ratcliffe (no relation) both lecture there as well as Ari Terblanche.
http://www.cityvarsity.co.za/course/fac_sound/sound_staff/course/fac_sound

Renesongs

I did a production course through Cape Audio College. It was a complete rip off. I wouldn't wipe my bum with the certificate I received. The real question is were are you going to work as a sound engineer, SA? We desperately need them but no one believes in hiring them AFAIK. Overseas? - then it's best to study where you going to work

Manfred-Klose

I was going to do the producers course, but thankfully rene helped me from making a mistake, i could have wasted R9000!!!!!

Thanks rene, i really acknowledge what you have done.
One can learn more on the internet.

What rhymes with ''phoney''............

I think the city varsity would be the best choice, its a 3 year course and covers everything.

Renesongs

@ Manfred - de nada - I have learned more about sound engineering recording from this forum in the last 8 months than anywhere else. ?

AlanRatcliffe

Renesongs wrote: I have learned more about sound engineering recording from this forum in the last 8 months than anywhere else. ?

I've picked up a fair amount recently too, but having a solid theoretical grounding really helps with everything, from recording to live sound to understanding some of the books you might buy to help you advance. So I'm a firm believer in getting the more formal education as a start.

Riaan

An option might be online courses - I've looked at this one (http://www.audiomasterclass.com/about.cfm) some time ago and asked Alan about this before. It looks quite comprehensive, and David Mellor appears to be well known in the industry. They do award some kind of certificate, though I don't know how much weight this kind of certificate carries locally. I've been thinking about doing it too, for my own education only, but that will probably only happen once I retire from my full time job...

Neps

Well, a mate of mine said I must read this and reply if I wanted to. So here is my reply...

Cape Audio College is JUNK, City Varsity is a little less JUNK, Damlin is useless. The only place one may want to look at is maybe ASE in Jo'Burg. I've been in the industry for about 8 years now. Self taught, then made the mistake of going to a college. What a waste of time. All I learnt to do there was to backstab people for studio time. I've learnt more in the years actualy working than studieng. And the amount of STARRY eyed graduates that I meet each year frightens me. They are mostly incompetent.

No one has the slightest knowledge of basic principles. What good though, is that those little guys underbid me, and then the client comes running to me at the end saying 'SAVE my project!!'

After lets say working full time in the Audio Industry for the last 6 years I've worked with some real big names, and alot of small names, have had over 2500 TV credits to my name, released a DVD for the Nelson Mandela Birthday concert, got 3 current Prime Time shows credited to me etc. And what I've learnt in that time is that , if you are serious to do Sound, make sure what you're getting into. Don't think music, think sound. I now spen more time in a TV Final Mix studio than in my recording studio, but alas, it's still FUN.

Renesongs

Cape Audio College is JUNK

+++ 1 I wish I knew of a musicians consumer body that I could complain to so that they could be shut down and stop giving the industry a bad name and ripping people off They are simply CAC >☹

Vintage-Vibe

"They are simply CAC " ? (sries with laughter, rolling around on the floor) I have to agree having gone there myself - Richard is a good knowledgable gut though, don't know if he's still there

VV

Neps

I think it's about high time that ALL the 'sound engineering' courses get audited by the Education department in SA.

I'm actualy so sick and tired of the wannabe's around that I don't even allow anyone into my studio (on a freelance basis) if they tell me they studied sound and they recorded a couple of demoes. I had one of those know-it-alls in my studio the other day. And the poor dumb@ss didn't even know how to run Pro Tools. So what happens.. I had to jump in before my studio gets a bad name, and all I get is the Studio rental fee, not even an engineering fee.

Whats the moral of the story..? BE TOTALY SURE THAT YOU CAN BACK UP WHAT YOU"RE SAYING TO PEOPLE!!!

Neps

Vintage Vibe wrote: "They are simply CAC " ? (sries with laughter, rolling around on the floor) I have to agree having gone there myself - Richard is a good knowledgable gut though, don't know if he's still there

VV

I dunno if Richard is still there. I do know that the current crop of lecturers are not that bright. A mate of mines brother went there last year, before I could warn him. The bloke came to me afterwards and he had to un-learn all the bad habbits that he picked up there. Kick ass engineer, who got misinformed by misinformed lecturers.

Of all the people there Richard had a bit of knowledge, but no one else there actualy has a name in the industry. Then again, all the big guys I know in JHB don't even know any of the names of the lecturers in any college in SA.

Whats that old saying 'They that can't do, teach..'

Renesongs

Whats that old saying 'They that can't do, teach..'

"Those than can do, and those that can't teach gym." - Woody Allen
And those that cant teach gym become politicians and those who fail at politics because cant fool some of the people some of the time start audio colleges because a musician and his wife/girlfriends money are soon parted. ☹

deanBailey

Looks like no one has anything good to say about Cape Audio College...

...lol I'll +1 that too having gone there a few years ago but I'll keep my opinions to myself.

As far as I know, Richard started his own studio and lectured now and then, although he does tend to lean towards old school techniques which ended up with me getting a client of his that wasn't that impressed with his work.

Manfred-Klose

I've been a student there last year.

Richard lectured us on studio acoustics for a month, that was probably the best class i ever had, the amount of knowledge i absorbed was pricless!!!

I wish i could sayed that about the others teachers.
There's this one teacher, i could have swarn he was tripping on acid or something(rene, does it ring a bell??)

MAby its because it's cape town and everyone is on a permanent vacation, dont know why?

Anyway if you want learn something, go the www.google.com and start typing.....

Alan and rene's favoutite quote:

"If you want to get laid go to college, if you want an education go to the library "- Frank Zappa

Renesongs

There's this one teacher, i could have swarn he was tripping on acid or something(rene, does it ring a bell??)

There's a man on the moon can you hear him calling me?

deanBailey

Manfred Klose wrote: There's this one teacher, i could have swarn he was tripping on acid or something(rene, does it ring a bell??)

Anyway if you want learn something, go the www.google.com and start typing.....

+1000

AlanRatcliffe

Neps wrote: No one has the slightest knowledge of basic principles.

Thank you! That's my biggest beef with these guys too. I know it's not their fault that they weren't trained properly, but it's still annoying.

if you are serious to do Sound, make sure what you're getting into. Don't think music, think sound.

Great advice and a very quotable quote.