Technical question...?

DaFiz

I see the guitars hanging at my local dealer have balanced line outputs, (cannon instead of jacks).
I hear this can be achieved with a stereo jack instead of a mono jack, is this true...? and are some of the cheaper guitars only using this system to improve their output quality,
while some of the professional instrument don't necessarily use that system as they already sound good plugged in...?
It's a topic I need to question as I am ready to buy my next Dreadnought and cannot afford a professional instrument, but also wishing to avoid chaiwanese laminated 'special' offers.
?

racman

None of my acoustics have anything other than a jack input. In fact none of my previous ones had anything else either. Although I am biased, I reall feel that my Takamine for sale is a great buy (and if you are serious, "pm" me and we can discuss a better price. I used this for a while as my plugged in acoustic in preference to my then Taylor K14ce. No I didn't say it was a better guitar but I felt the plugged in sound was better and it has the advantage of an inboard tuner.

http://www.guitarforum.co.za/classifieds/takamine-ean-15ce-for-sale/msg95241/?topicseen#msg95241

Gearhead

I do not think there is a connection between a guitar having balanced outputs and that same guitar being a good instrument. Theoretically less noise is picked up between guitar and amp, but a good preamp will be relatively high level so the signal to noise ratio is still good.
A DI box for instance takes your guitar level down (to mic level) and outputs it as balanced. Either way works, the lower level is less prone to influence other channels in a snake.

Bob-Dubery

I'm not convinced myself. Baggs, Fishman and other such companies aren't moving to balanced outputs. Why? Well, of course, one reason is that it requires a bigger hole in a guitar - and that might be something that owners of good acoustic guitars do not want to countenance.

I also don't see the sort of star professional acoustic players going this route. They mostly seem to stick to a system that goes to a jack output, then a pre-amp and out from that a DI box or a balanced line. Steve Newman, Tony Cox, Martin Simpson, Richard Thompson, Martin Carthy... they don't run that kind of rig. They could afford to, they are clearly particular about their equipment and they play venues where that kind of facility would be available - but they don't got the XLR/low-impedance route.

Another problem I can see is that it limits the use of stomp boxes.

AlanRatcliffe

Gearhead wrote: I do not think there is a connection between a guitar having balanced outputs and that same guitar being a good instrument.

+1. A balanced circuit is just a circuit like any other and can be any kind of quality from bad to great and anywhere in between. Just having a balanced output on a guitar doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of the guitar.

a good preamp will be relatively high level so the signal to noise ratio is still good.

+1.

A DI box for instance takes your guitar level down (to mic level) and outputs it as balanced.

I think you mean low impedance, rather than a lower level. ?

Fingerpicker

If the guitar lead is going to be longer than 5 - 7 metres, then you should use a DI box (Direct Injection) to balance and lower the impedance so that the signal travels better. With a balanced, low impedance signal there is no deterioration of signal over distance. In most (inside) live situations, clubs, etc the guitar will probably plug directly into a mixer (1/4" TS) close by. As soon as you plug into a stagebox (or "Mult") and send a signal over some distance, there's only one way to go, balanced, mic level signal.

The XLR/Canon plug on the guitar would probably send out a balanced signal, but not necessarily a low impedance one.

DI boxes are active or passive. Passives do not need power as they are merely transformers. Actives often have a pad to attenuate (reduce) the signal from the instrument, whatever instrument that may be, a ground lift to reduce hum if necessary, and maybe even a preamplifier. Actives would run off mains, 9 Volt battery or phantom power.

I'm a bit of an appy at this, so feel free to comment.

DaFiz

Thanx very much guys. This certainly answers my question. I'll aim for the better quality guitar and ignore the XLR outputs trend. ?

Racman your Takamine looks cool and the price is not unreasonable. I'll put it on my list and pm you when I'm ready to buy. ?

AlanRatcliffe

Fingerpicker wrote: The XLR/Canon plug on the guitar would probably send out a balanced signal, but not necessarily a low impedance one.

The moment you have any active electronics in a guitar, you get a LowZ output - it's the main function of the preamp - above any volume boost or EQ.

As soon as you plug into a stagebox (or "Mult")

I haven't heard them called "mults" before. Anyone else call it this? When someone says "mult" I automatically think of splitting a signal into two channels of the desk for parallel processing (like mixing a comped bass or kick with a direct one).

TomCat

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Fingerpicker wrote: The XLR/Canon plug on the guitar would probably send out a balanced signal, but not necessarily a low impedance one.
The moment you have any active electronics in a guitar, you get a LowZ output - it's the main function of the preamp - above any volume boost or EQ.

As soon as you plug into a stagebox (or "Mult")
I haven't heard them called "mults" before. Anyone else call it this? When someone says "mult" I automatically think of splitting a signal into two channels of the desk for parallel processing (like mixing a comped bass or kick with a direct one).

The term "Mult" is used quite commonly in the Pro Touring industry. I usually refer to them as mults as well.

AlanRatcliffe

TomCat wrote: The term "Mult" is used quite commonly in the Pro Touring industry.

Ah - that's my "new thing learned every day" sorted out nice and early today. ?

TomCat

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
TomCat wrote: The term "Mult" is used quite commonly in the Pro Touring industry.
Ah - that's my "new thing learned every day" sorted out nice and early today. ?

Glad I could help..... ? ?

Keira-WitherKay

yes the balanced line out is a feature of fishman pickups...... but their systems also have the option of an unbalanced jack too my AEB 10 Ibanez acoustic bass has the fishman pickup system and offers this option...... i have used it both ways .and direct to desk(mic input) from balanced line and to my ears it negated the need for a DI box......... but i guess they offer the jack output cos most people plug their guitars into amps which have jack inputs but most amps these days at least most bass amps and acoustic amps offer a built in often stereo balanced line out as an option on the amp again allowing direct input from the amps built in DI box to desk.........

so i think offering an optional balanced line out is more a feature of the fishman pickup company than any particular guitar brand......so if they opt to use the pickup system in their guitars then the option of balanced line is there......more by default than design by the guitar company ... and it's never just a balanced line it always offers a jack(unbalanced lineout )too