Fingerpicking on the dreaded steel string

lindsmuse · 2010-08-30T18:50:43+00:00

I think I have a solution. I recently took up with my steelstring and then almost instantly gave up! Sounded so feeble. Then I was watching the young prodigy Sungha Jung playing In a Constant State of Flux. It looks like he has picks on all his fingers. So ... Bob suggested a few weeks ago I try fingerpicks, so went and got some. Plastic. They're nice. You have to start slowly it seems - relearning everything and then you start getting used to them. And it's nice and loud!

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote 1) How long does a set last?

It depends on how you apply them. Done professionally, they rough up the nail before applying them and then they last about a month (but with a bit more chance of damage if they come off). I apply them without roughing up the nail first, which means they only last a couple of weeks, but they leave the nail surface intact if they come loose. Applying them double thick with two layers also makes them last longer as the nail flexes less.

2) How do you trim them?

Same as a natural nail - nail file or emery boards.

3) How do you eventually remove them?

You can leave them until they come off themselves or you can soak them off with acetone.

I often just use them to let my nails recover and grow a bit.

I get the silk from Miro's Nails: http://mirosimic.com/nails.php and get the cyanoacrylate locally.

lindsmuse wrote Acrylic nails didn't do it for me and that was on nylon and I'm a hobbyist. Waste of money. But fibreglass - I've worked with this stuff - pretty extreme - do you buy a mat and a bit of resin - how does that work Alan?

Agreed on the acrylics - they last really well, but do not feel natural. It's not normal fibreglass, but a thin silk matt. the process is shown here: http://mirosimic.com/nails_directions.php

guitarboy2828 wrote Picture of your hand? ?

Not mine (I wish - look at those fingers!), but:

You can see in the application pics on the link above that the silk basically becomes transparent when the CA is applied.

rikus

Has anyone heard of Fred Kelly's Bumblebee Thumb picks? I stumbled across a youtube video of a guy really raving about these thumbpicks. They come in two shapes Teardrop and Jazz.

I'd really love to try out the Jazz model. I'm currently just using a Jim Dunlop thumbpick that I've made shorter, but these seem to be perfect!

Does anyone know if their available locally or is ordering via the interwebs the only option?

Bob-Dubery

rikus wrote Has anyone heard of Fred Kelly's Bumblebee Thumb picks? I stumbled across a youtube video of a guy really raving about these thumbpicks. They come in two shapes Teardrop and Jazz.

I'd really love to try out the Jazz model. I'm currently just using a Jim Dunlop thumbpick that I've made shorter, but these seem to be perfect!

Does anyone know if their available locally or is ordering via the interwebs the only option?

Those look cool. Different gauges. Ideally I would like a one-size-fits-all type solution. I like the FEEL of playing with thumb and fingers. However the thumbpick gives better bass but slows my thumb down just a little. Also when I strum with it it feels very heavy - which it is really, and so lighter thumb pick might help in that instance. But would it reduce the bass attack and change the balance again for fingerpicking?

A hybrid technique would do most things - but it does take up the index finger so you only have two fingers for picking. Disgustingly talented individuals such as Danny Gatton and Richard Thompson make this work - but only about 99.97% of the time. Thompson uses a thumb pick for the occasional song, so clearly he doesn't feel that even a well developed hybrid technique quite covers all the bases.

Martin Simpson does what I am trying to do - play with a thumb pick and occasionally get the index finger underneath it so that it's like gripping a flat pick, but he doesn't do a lot of flat picked stuff.

I wouldn't even mind alternating between fingers, thumb pick and flat pick as the song demands, but I'd like some consistency in tone and volume.

Still... I can't be the first person to have to try to square this particular circle.

[deleted]

Alan Ratcliffe wrote I get the silk from Miro's Nails: http://mirosimic.com/nails.php and get the cyanoacrylate locally.

I have actually seen you post this before Alan, I wanted to order and then it slipped my mind. I think I need to order some...

Is any one else keen on sharing an order? I am in Pretoria / Jobug all week and weekend.

PM me if anyone wants a piggy back ?

lindsmuse

=

Sungha Jung - above - is the one who is freaking my brain. I can't find out what picks he is using . I can't get onto his site - they say there's 'malware that can damage your computer' over there. But somewhere I saw in a convo under a youtube video of his that he uses Arctic Piks - as mentioned by guitarboy earlier.

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alaska-Pik-Finger-Guitar-Pick?sku=110630 (courtesy guitarboy)

Keira-WitherKay

here's a video from Nashville session guitarist and fingerstyle virtiousa and renown fingerstyle tutor ..........Brad Jones

AND YES HE USES A THUMBPICK ON NYLON CLASSICAL GUITAR

watch the video he starts with a classical piece then transitions into a typically folky fingerpick then into a country/bluegrass style by end ....... so don't swithc off after 1 min of classical piece............

well thanks to him i looked at using a thumbpick on a nylon which to me to date was nothing short of sacrilidge but i have to admit i saw the potential and ran out and bought a collection of different thumbpicks to try ....... settled on the dunlop at moment but still early days...and i'll keep experimenting ......... never too old to learn ........ i find the thumbpick works great for african music and anything typically new age acoustic then i revert to finders for the cuban /latin and flamenco type percussive songs as when i tried it once on the percussive stuff the pick hooked under a string and nearly ripped my thumb out of joint ..........not funny at all....... so like Bob i think i'll use the pick on some of my repetoire and fingers on rest ...............

lindsmuse

Wow! I find it interesting that he plays classical with his pinkie on the fretboard (another blasphemy) When I taught myself to read I had to unlearn this as I didn't want to break any rules. But it changes nothing for him from what I can hear - he has got such a lovely touch. Maybe you have break all the rules just so that your own personal touch can come thro. ?

( I would never write on my guitar with a cokey pen though - now THAT'S blasphemy - its like writing on a soccer ball or something!) ?

Keira-WitherKay

lindsmuse wrote Wow! I find it interesting that he plays classical with his pinkie on the fretboard (another blasphemy) When I taught myself to read I had to unlearn this as I didn't want to break any rules. But it changes nothing for him from what I can hear - he has got such a lovely touch. Maybe you have break all the rules just so that your own personal touch can come thro. ?

( I would never write on my guitar with a cokey pen though - now THAT blasphemy - its like writing on a soccer ball or something!) ?

yeah you and me both lindesmuse breaking the "traditional " rules ....... when i started in acoustic world i was such a purist .. how things change ? and may i add for the better

and re the writing on his guitar ... theres a story behind it he tells in a video .where this guitar is a takamine his students bought for him .....nice to have your students love you that much..and also that guitar is signed by all the big names in nashville ....... so prob gonna be quite a collectors piece at sometime...........

Bob-Dubery

Keira WitherKay wrote and re the writing on his guitar ... theres a story behind it he tells in a video .where this guitar is a takamine his students bought for him .....nice to have your students love you that much..and also that guitar is signed by all the big names in nashville ....... so prob gonna be quite a collectors piece at sometime...........

Maybe. Some folks sign a lot of things and so signed items don't end up with a lot of financial value. The famous Australian cricketer Sir Donald Bradman signed HUGE amounts of stuff whilst he was alive. Anything with his signature on isn't worth that much unless it has some other intrinsic value. I have a five pound note signed by Sir Ian Botham (long story), and it's probably worth about 5 pounds.

I don't have any religious objection to writing on guitars. I don't it myself, but then I don't go for inlays with my initials or trees of life up the fret board. Some of the musicians I admire have guitars that are kept in good running order but are otherwise not what one would describe as "pristine". I think they regard the guitars as tools, and my admiration for them is not based on what they play but the sound they make with what they play.

I think the textbook methods are usually well considered and are intended to create a desirable result. IMO they are much more relevant in the world of classical music, where doing dive-bomb type things with a whammy bar is not likely to be a requirement. That doesn't mean they have no application elsewhere.

When I watch really good players I am struck by how many of them get to the same end position that the classical technique is trying to produce even though they play different music in different styles and with techniques that, at first glance, are very different. EG their fingers tend to be perpendicular (or nearly so) to the fretboard. If you think of cricket then Jacques Kallis is a text book player whereas Brian Lara, with his high backlift and crouched stance, was not, but they both did the IMPORTANT things - they both play with the bat straight as the shot is offered to the ball, they both keep their heads very still and so on. The text book methods are not ends to themselves, they are intended to lead the player (in either sense) to a technically desirable end result.

lindsmuse

I find it interesting that he plays classical with his pinkie on the fretboard

I meant his pinkie on the soundboard!

The textbook methods are basically tried and tested , and what you do with them depends on what is natural and comfortable for yourself. Where there's a will there's a way ...

Keira-WitherKay

lindsmuse wrote
I find it interesting that he plays classical with his pinkie on the fretboard
The textbook methods are basically tried and tested , and what you do with them depends on what is natural and comfortable for yourself. Where there's a will there's a way ...

well i always believe ...........and even ask my students when we have the 1st lesson ...if they want to learn the traditional way or lets for lack of a better word call it the more modern "hybrid" way where we adapt technique /use of fingers or picks ect to suit the style and of course the body shape of the student .............

cos it's only the students wanting to say enter the classical world that need adhere strictly to the 'rules set out by exactly that the "classical fraterity" cos if they want to be graded and study a degree in classical music they will be expected to adhere to the traditional rules....whereas a degree in jazz will be more lenient on the traditional technique and embrace modern hybrid styles which borrow from everything ..

BUT THE TRADITIONAL STYLE as i think Bob mentioned is a good guideline to start with .then find what works for you and of course your music.........

below is a great video ....... @ lindsmuse it shows how the great UK solo jazz guitarist martin taylor plays also with pinkie on soundboard......... he even says in the video a hint sarcastically , he's been told by others it's wrong ?

@ Bob re using upstrokes with thumb on fingerstyle it describes his upstrokes with thumb on bass lines and how he uses it ........

this is from a tutoriol where he teach's the jazz standard "i got Rhythm,,,,," watch how he devolps the song thru the video .starts slow and simple then the improv sets in in 3rd run thru ........ this is by far my favourite fingerstyle jazz player of all time.............. and someone who inspired me no end to my own fingerstyle jazz style ( yes i play jazz too not only world music ) truly inspirational to watch

lindsmuse

Yes. I would say he definitely DOES have rhythm. No doubt about that! Think I'm going to take up the trumpet rather ....

Keira-WitherKay

lindsmuse wrote Yes. I would say he definitely DOES have rhythm. No doubt about that! Think I'm going to take up the trumpet rather ....

? yes he is good. and for those that don't know him some useful or useless info.......... that he is the guitarist who at age 19 took over performing with stefan grappelli (renown jazz violin maestro ) and he replaced no other at tender age of 19 that django reinhart , wow that is pretty impressive.......... but he grew up with jazz his father was a pro jazz bassist and he tells in his video how he played with his dads pro band at age 6 -9 and then went to play on pro london jazz scene at 15 and at 16 was in the guitar chair on the jazz band on the QEII where there's a funny story that despite his life of musical upbringing he (like paco ) couldn't sight read music and he bullshitted his way onto the QEII gig saying he could.....he claimed he just followed the pianists left hand and made up the rest ....yeeez and at 16 said they were halfway across the atlantic on their way to new york before the band leader leant over to him during a show and commented "you can't read can you ?" he said he just shook his head and no one seemed to say much further ........he also got the MBE from queen for his contribution to music ......... he recounts at school he could hear music in his head and then just played what he heard ....and thought everyone could do this ......... ? and was shocked when he found he was unique in some ways........... also a last anticdote is that he and a few friends played guitar at school and they decided to work out some song ....so his two friends came back a few days later and played the piece as a guitar duet which it was.......martin says he had not noticed that it was a duet and worked out how to play both part simultaneously by ear ........ and so his multi part playing style started.............

and yes i can go on about him but he is truly inspiring ..so lindsmuse forget about that switch to trumpet just be inspired by his abilities ......

so yeah i gues you can say he has rhythm ? and a whole lot more

btw he has numerous vids on you tube.and some full length dvd's available..and tutorials and his website is helpfull.........

AlanRatcliffe

There's a great section in Tommy Emmanuel's Live in Saint Louis where he gives the audience a fingerpicking lesson. He calls the thumb "the most rebellious digit". ?

lindsmuse

I seem to be finding similar things in trying to learn to pick with the plastic Dunlops (for now) is that its much like when I started to read. Playing without reading for 30 years! I'd battle with something on one day and then the next it just slots into place.

The unconscious and muscle memory apparently do this.

But the next thing was with reading as is with this ...was getting over myself. I suddenly become aware that I'm doing it AT LAST and then I catch a wobble and it falls apart. And funnily enough the solution for this seems to be to find someone to chat to while I play or read a newspaper or something. Then the fingers just plonk along by themselves. But this is a bit like learning tricks and I don't want to learn tricks and devices - I just want to play - nice and relaxed ... I think its about finding the level you can handle without getting too bored and then just practising a million times.

But it really feels nice - the picks, once I get going ?

Thanks for the info Keira and Alan. When I was learning picking it was Mississippi John Hurt I was trying to emulate. And some Leo Kotke and then some standards like Candyman, Cocaine Blues and stuff - simple things ... And Doc Watson .. These new guys are giants!

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