Handwound pups in SA

MikeM

Hey guys

Now I know there's barely a market for handwounds in SA, but I'm trying to see how small.

My plan is to start winding some pups, very small runs to spec, however instead of just winding a pup and selling it, I'm considering winding a few pups to send out as testers, then winding a new pup with whatever changes the buyer is looking for, i.e brighter, hotter, bassier and so on.

Think it'll be worth the effort, not looking to get rich here, but just cover my costs and have some fun.

Mike

dan77

MikeM wrote Hey guys

Now I know there's barely a market for handwounds in SA, but I'm trying to see how small.

My plan is to start winding some pups, very small runs to spec, however instead of just winding a pup and selling it, I'm considering winding a few pups to send out as testers, then winding a new pup with whatever changes the buyer is looking for, i.e brighter, hotter, bassier and so on.

Think it'll be worth the effort, not looking to get rich here, but just cover my costs and have some fun.

Mike

Wind a few, put them into a few guitars with different woods, record some samples, compare with other pickups, ask the opinions of pro players, give a guitar to a pro to play at his/her gig and then take it from there.

Few people really care about the over-hyped hand-winds. Normal pickups, like the good value for money Toneriders will do 98% of the work just as well, if not better in a lot of cases.

?

singemonkey

If you're just covering costs maybe. But it seems to me that, given how small and light pickups are, most of the market is going to go with the famous names, right?

I've got Lollar P90s in my gibson, and I'd maybe consider one day getting bare-knuckles for my Tokai. It's easy enough for me to order them directly, you know? Those guys have years of trial and error behind them and have developed some really amazing pickups. To buy hand-wounds locally, I'd probably need to be paying significantly less and still know that they offer something over mass-produced pickups.

I'm not being very encouraging, am I ? Just one person's opinion though. Economics do seem a bit tricky for this small market though.

MikeM

Singe, that's what I was hoping to expect.

I'm aiming at pricing these between Toneriders and SD's.. Still reasonable, just with some extra choice + quality.. Almost "tailoring" the pickups to suit the player/guitar.

Totally. Half of the adventure for me is to just try different winds and see what all can be produced!!! I mean just with magnets, wire types and "hotness" there are so many variables, but then break angles, scatters and tension all come in to play.

On the topic of the big names, I do believe that there's a lot of snake oil here and there's not so much "mojo" / dark arts involved. I mean Brian May rewound his own pups back in the day and they sounded good.

makepeace

i'd be interested ?

will be looking to get a set of strat pickups (tonerider price bracket) in the nearish future. let me know how it goes.

Bob-Dubery

MikeM wrote On the topic of the big names, I do believe that there's a lot of snake oil here and there's not so much "mojo" / dark arts involved. I mean Brian May rewound his own pups back in the day and they sounded good.

Almost the worst example you could have picked, IMO. The famous guitar is very microphonic and feedsback like crazy. May says he likes this, says he can't play a guitar that isn't on the edge of howling. Indeed his playing style and his tastes may have been shaped by playing that guitar. How may people would really want that sound and pickups that behaved that way? And what else could you do with those pickups? And May never had to make another set just the same.

I don't want to be a bucket of cold water, but have you thought about your costs? You'd need some kind of machine to wind the pups in a fairly controlled fashion. You'd need bobbins and so on. If you're not careful you could be broke. Noble and wiser and we'd all think your just the nicest guy but still broke,

MikeM

Thanks for the input Bob.

Correct on the bad example. Not to mention the whole story with EVH having a broken pup.

The winding machine is almost sorted out. Getting it done on the cheap. Besides that the raw materials to make a pickup will cost around R150 - R250 depending on what type.

I am starting to think this won't be a worthwhile venture, not because of the slim profits etc but because of demand :/

Sean

MikeM wrote I am starting to think this won't be a worthwhile venture, not because of the slim profits etc but because of demand :/

I know this is not a money making venture for you, you have bigger fish to fry. However, I think it's a good idea in terms of gaining knowledge and experience. There might not be much demand right now, but that may change later, for various reasons. If you had to wind a few and they sounded great ( i.e. what the person is looking for ) and the price range you're looking at is somewhere between Toneriders and SD's, I reckon more people might become interested. Who knows?
I would consider getting a set.
Warning! About to be shallow here :-[
" What pups do you have in that axe?"
*Nonchalantly* "Oh, handwounds that were custom made to my specs" :-[ :-[ :-[

AlanRatcliffe

+1 to both Bob and singemonkey's points. Brian May used a set of Trisonics (GBP4 IIRC) - that and the tuners were the only things he and his dad didn't make. Many things about that guitar are, ummm... idiosyncratic, but he learned to play on it and it shaped his playing - no-one else could use it to anywhere near its potential.

Don't price yourself too low - you'll never compete at the low end of the market. You'll end up winding all day every day and still not making a living from it. And because replacement pickups are such a small market, you can only sell so many anyway... Rather spend lots of time (and money) winding yourself pickups, experimenting and learning for a year or two. Then start producing them for sale and charge based on what they are worth and the amount of work that is involved in making them.

If you are custom tailoring each individual example of your product for the specific player or instrument (and are good at it - important point!), you are offering something way beyond the cookie-cutter mass-produced stuff and should be compensated accordingly. The same is true for anything: you can pick a suit off the rack at Markhams or have one tailored, and no-one expects the two to be even remotely in the same price range; you can pick up a chair from Bears or Morkels that does the job of keeping your bum off the floor and relatively comfy, but if you have something custom built by a carpenter to your specifications you expect to pay for it. So why not for pickups?

The demand is very small. Don't count on leaving your day job just yet. ? But if you approach it as a hobby that you love and you become good at it there is a chance of success on a larger scale. I suppose it's the age old artist's dilemma between making art and making money. The one thing that sets guys like Jason Lollar, Tom Wolfe and Lindy Fralin apart from many others is they truly love what they are doing and would probably still be doing it - even if they weren't making money from it.

MikeM

Alan Ratcliffe wroteDon't price yourself too low - you'll never compete at the low end of the market. You'll end up winding all day every day and still not making a living from it. And because replacement pickups are such a small market, you can only sell so many anyway... Rather spend lots of time (and money) winding yourself pickups, experimenting and learning for a year or two. Then start producing them for sale and charge based on what they are worth and the amount of work that is involved in making them.

The demand is very small. Don't count on leaving your day job just yet. ? But if you approach it as a hobby that you love and you become good at it there is a chance of success on a larger scale. I suppose it's the age old artist's dilemma between making art and making money. The one thing that sets guys like Jason Lollar, Tom Wolfe and Lindy Fralin apart from many others is they truly love what they are doing and would probably still be doing it - even if they weren't making money from it.

Alan like I said, I'm doing this to fund the hobby really - I don't have the cash to sit winding 20 pups a month and keep em in my cupboard, but I do follow with the whole price bracket thing, often if you price things too low, people see it as sub standard.

Thanks for the input (You too Sean ?)

Ray

OK, I dont play much electric guitar at all hey. But I like the approach and I will buy from you. However, I wont be one of your reviewers mind you. But I dont think you gonna make money. There is an oke in Benoni who winds his own and makes really nice electric guitars as well. If I played more I would buy one. So, do this thing. There's gold in them thar hills. I dont think there's much but there you go - I wish you well. Maybe you can sort me out with a flatbucker.

MikeM

Thanks Ray. When I opened this thread, first thing I though was, oh no what's he going to say ?

Very interesting about the flatbucker.. Going to do some research there.

I'm going to start this either way. Think I'm going to test the water first before I jump in the deep end.

MikeM

Ok guys this is officially going to happen ?

Going to take a few weeks to get the stuff sorted out and to practice a bit. From then I'll be taking orders (Perhaps I'll offer early bird discounts or send some to guys for reviews ?)

ryanguit

hey i know i dont contribute much on the forum but...

you have to do what you do well
you have to provide what others cannot

someone up above said put them in different guitars, i would do the opposite so that the tester can hear the range that is possible from a single guitar...

strat pickups are pretty much available at any price, at any winding, with any magnet, by any make... so i would avoid that market unless someone really knows what they want and dont want to just get some lindy fralins as he does every pickup at 5% increments up or down...

using lindy as an example: he added a brass plate option for strat pickups (tele like) i think Alan had a set at one point for sale.
and most of his tele neck pickups are uncovered as he can wind them hotter without losing top end as quickly...

so he basically solved 2 "problems" (more like personal dislikes) that obviously could easily compete against stock pickups and win if you knew you wanted
a) more mids from your strat bridge pickup or b) more snap from your tele neck pickup...

i personnally like a tele neck pickup with alnico5 rods and 6.5 - 7.5k winding depending on the gauge of the winding
but i have another tele with a ceramic humbucker (9k) in the neck. but i know which one i want and when...

just saying 2 goals: service and choice... but if you can provide testing of different pickups... youll beat the competition because most people dont know what they want and the ones who do... either have it, or know where to find it... ive owned 30 pickups or more and i like what i like but it cost alot to find that out. maybe you could help alot of guys out to get the tone they NEED without having to bump their heads.

Good luck

MikeM

Thanked that post.

? I agree with you in most senses.

To me, there's a MASSIVE difference between 6.5k and 7.5k, but that's in my books. Like I said my main goal with this is to send out a standard set (I.e strats being 6k, 6k, 8k) and then after a week of use or whatever, make a new pickup using different magnet types or sizes with different techniques etc to get closer to the tone the person has in their head. Like you say to find exactly what you want is expensive so my goal is to help the person get closer to that in one swoop.

But thanks for the input - much appreciated.

ryanguit

yep there is... if you are on the same sized bobbin with the same magnet exactly.

im taking into account that if the bobbin is strat sized longer wire to get same number of turns on tele neck bobbin...
so 6.5k on a tele singlecoil bobbin is not the same as 6.5k on a strat bobbin...

Dimarzio:
12.39K tone zone single sized humbucker
17.31K tone zone full size humbucker

to get a similar number of turns
and if you use even the slightest difference like 42 wire vs 43 wire... you will have a higher impedence for the 42 for the same number of turns on 43...
i once said the same thing to Heath and he burnt me with these little facts... so 6k alnico5 strat pickup does not = 6k alnico5 strat pickup

scatterwound gives more topend as less capacitance between windings etc etc etc... each scatter hand wound will be different

Seriously Good luck ?

Kistarrentom

MikeM wrote Thanks Ray. When I opened this thread, first thing I though was, oh no what's he going to say ?

Very interesting about the flatbucker.. Going to do some research there.

I'm going to start this either way. Think I'm going to test the water first before I jump in the deep end.

Hi guys,
please forgive me my bad English, I'm from Bavaria in Germany. When testing the water, maybe somebody else already sits in the bathtub ? - I'm the one, who builds the flatbuckers. It's a registered mark. It took me nearly a year and many sleepless nights to figure out, how to build this thing, so my suggestion is to look for another challenge and leave me the little money I earn with this pickup. After three years of "manufactoring" I just finished Flatbucker Number 100, which just lies before me on the desk - so you see, there*s no big money to make although I only have very satisfied customers. . . By the way three years ago I was in the same situation like you and I decided to jump ino the water. I'm not drowning yet, but it's very difficult to stay alive. Meanwhile there are very good pickups coming from China, cheaper than just the material I would have to pay for. So the only way to success seems to me is to get a good name and a big customer (merchant) selling only your products, so the mass makes it. The other way is my way, look for a product which is too complicated or too seldomly needed so no Chinese company would be eager to copy it. Best regards
Tom