dan77
Hi everyone, I've been on the receiving end of some financial incentives recently I've got GAS again. I'm about to make a choice between the Tonerider Alnico 4 and the Tonerider Rocksong set. I'm going to get the zebras - they just look so cool!
Both sets are fairly similar but the one has Alnico 4 magnets and the Rocksongs have Alnico 2 magnets.
Which one? I like Joe Bonamassa and I like Van Halen so what do you guys think a man should do?
MikeM
Get the a4. The a2 set is crap and unbalanced. Neck is very fat and bridge is weak
AlanRatcliffe
MikeM wrote:
Get the a4. The a2 set is crap and unbalanced. Neck is very fat and bridge is weak
OK, I don't know the Rocksongs, but usually If I hear that about any set of HB pups, I'd ask "are you sure you've got them the right way round?"
MikeM
8k A2 neck.. Bound to be dark man.
AlanRatcliffe
Yeah, I get that, but a 12K bridge doesn't strike me as "weak" - I'd want about a 9K bridge with an 8K neck.
MikeM
If it were awg42 that'd be expected, but it's 43. So it's like an underwound Custom Custom.
AlanRatcliffe
Ah! Gotcha... ?
As far as the OP's question (sorry Dan!) - I'd also lean to the A4 models. Perfect for Bonamassa or VH (Eddie's original pickup was a classic output with approximately a 8.5K wind - later guitars had hotter pickups, but he's never matched his early tones).
MikeM
:? The A2 set can go almost Slash though ?
But yes I have heard the A4 neck and it's pretty dam good!!
Xroadkid
MikeM wrote:
Get the a4. The a2 set is crap and unbalanced. Neck is very fat and bridge is weak
Uh Huh? Crap? ? Are you talking about the Alnico 2 set (yes, weak I agree) or the Rocksong set (which I believe to be the best matched set they make!) The 12K bridge is absolutely a perfect match for the 8K bridge and the Alnico 2's just sing. All you got to do is adjust the heights of the pups and that's it.
When it comes down to it it's our ears that are our best guide and my ears tell me different!
MikeM
Xroadkid wrote:Uh Huh? Crap? ? Are you talking about the Alnico 2 set (yes, weak I agree) or the Rocksong set (which I believe to be the best matched set they make!) The 12K bridge is absolutely a perfect match for the 8K bridge and the Alnico 2's just sing. All you got to do is adjust the heights of the pups and that's it.
When it comes down to it it's our ears that are our best guide and my ears tell me different!
The A2 set is spec'd far better than the Rocksongs in my books. Far from weak. Similar to the SD Pearly Gates.
So yes, like you say, different ears. I suppose some people like strange sets like that.
Floydoid
I'm a fan of Tonerider pickups and have a stack of their stuff. What you got to do (given the budget) is match different pickups from their different sets. Very often a great set is not what the manufacturer claims but rather a set that you make up yourself. I've done a number of Tonerider installations (15 minutes job) and I have found a few excellent combinations:
1) I like the Rocksong set, yet you can try the Generator bridge (in the bridge) with the Rocksong bridge (in the neck) - much fatter!
2) Generator Bridge into both the bridge and neck - power, just play with pickup height
3) Alnico 4 bridge into bridge position and Rocksong neck into neck position - great combo! Sweet!
4) Alnico 4 set - excellent combo as it is
5) Rocksong neck (in the bridge) with an Alnico 2 neck in the neck position.
6) Lastly, I've also experimented with a Generator neck pickup (Alnico 5) into both the bridge and neck positions and it is a nice sound - once again just play around with the pickup heights a bit. As unlikely as it sounds this is probably my favourite combo because I like the bite of Alnico 5 and I don't want too much power in the bridge.
I hope I didn't waffle on too much but you gotta experiment a bit.
nicovlogg
dan77 wrote:
Hi everyone, I've been on the receiving end of some financial incentives recently I've got GAS again. I'm about to make a choice between the Tonerider Alnico 4 and the Tonerider Rocksong set. I'm going to get the zebras - they just look so cool!
Both sets are fairly similar but the one has Alnico 4 magnets and the Rocksongs have Alnico 2 magnets.
Which one? I like Joe Bonamassa and I like Van Halen so what do you guys think a man should do?
I'd recommend Alnico IV as well - got the neck in my Epi LP and it sounds really good to my ears, splits nicely as well.
chris77
I hate pickup debates. The variables involved are just too great. All you will get is a lot of different opinions based on personal taste and gear that even if specced identically, will not be identical. Add to that different setup preferences and playing styles and the puddle of uncertainty becomes even muddier. My advice is to pm or mail Andre with your query. His going to sell a set either way and will be able to give you best advice.
Gearhead
+1 Chris77 on most of your points.
There is one other issue overlooked here though: you do not have to choose. Magnets are cheap and going humbuckers means you can swap magnets. I had a SD Custom Custom (A5 magnet, 43 wire, 14K+) that I found to be rather dark. MikeM persuaded me to swap magnets. Going to A4 opened it up nicely (call it C4 ? ) and I may yet go to A3.
Andre should be able to tell you what the other differences are between the sets you are choosing between.
MikeM
GH, I have a roughcast A3 here - It's similar to the attack of A2s but with more highs and less mids. Roughcasts typically suit bridges better.
I believe a lot can be said about specs. This isn't a subjective discussion about handwounds vs scatterwound , this is down to numbers. You wouldn't give a typical bluesman a EMG 81/85 set now? Same goes for this situation.
Not to mention that the OP asked if he should go for the Rocksong or A4 set. Pretty simple to help him with that in my books.
I typically believe that one should go with a wind that suits them. So for the neck either a low 7k for a vintage type output or high 7k for something hot and fat, or just over 8k for those Slash tones. And then bridges can range from the vintagey pearly gates at low 8k to about 10k of awg42, to the range of 14k of awg43 for pups like the custom and such, or hotter for things like the invader. Then the Generator/Jb is 16k of awg44.
Pick your flavour and swap mags to colour the pups so they suit your guitar. In fact today I changed my neck pup from an A2 to A3 cause it was too dark and I couldn't be happier!
dan77
Thanks for all the expert advice everyone. I'm really no nearer to an answer and there are many opinions, and what one person says contradicts what another one says, and others contradict themselves.
nicovlogg probably sums it up best! He hates pickup debates!
I'm gonna get a Rocksong bridge for the bridge and a Generator neck for the neck! That would technically be what I'm looking for - a mix of alnico 2 & 5.
MikeM
Hey Dan, what made you decide on this? Don't mean to be a wet towel here, but one guy said the rocksong bridge was nice and 3 said it wasn't. Perhaps reconsider? The A2 classics will more than likely sound better.
Gearhead
Actually, it was Chris77 who posted he hates pickup debates and no one as far as I can tell contradicted themselves ?
You started the debate dude ?
dan77
It's all very interesting what everyone has to say. I'll stick with my selection as mentioned before. I played a guitar last night with a Rocksong set and it sounded unbelievable in a HSH setup with maple bolt-on neck and ash body, however I think Alnico 5 in the neck should have a bit more bite for what I want to do.
His setup is very similar to mine, down to the woods, so I know I'm on the right track.
dan77
Hi guys, I just thought it's time for an opinion. I got my Tonerider Rocksong bridge and a Generator neck installed and working perfectly. So it's Alnico 2 in the bridge and Alnico 5 in the neck. What an great sound and they balance out really well. The bridge is nice and powerful and has a kinda Angus Young quality to it (in my view naturally, though the consumption of a number of Peronis might also have something to do with it ?) and the neck has just enough bite when played through a slightly overdriven amp channel.
Very good combo indeed!
