Slipknot made me do it!

Spyke · 2008-08-20T13:16:46+00:00

I'm not going to get all long winded on the topic. I just find it appalling that the so called professionals can be so naive as to think that mere music can have an influence of that magnitude. Weigh up music and the severity thereof and then do the same with pre-med murder, taking a human life... It just doesn't measure up. Sure music can do weird and wonderful things, but for it to take the wrap for murder in the first...? Blame the parents for not hugging him enough, or hugging him too much. Blame society and the evolution of communication... Blame the little runt himself FFS! I hate the way that the misinformed are very quick to shift the blame onto something they don't fully understand... Stereotypes FTMFL!!! [/rant]

Renesongs

MiKeZilLA wrote ....erm Religion (please don't stone me please don't stone me)

Everybody must get stoned - Bob Dylan

They are often very charming. Have the same intelligence distribution as us "normal" people and are attracted to positions of power so you often find them in those positions as well.

+1 Very good point - The paper holds their folded faces to the floor and everyday the paper boy brings more - Roger Waters

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote "There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another" - Frank Zappa on "Crossfire" - censorship (1986)

"I wrote a song about dental floss, but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" Frank Zappa, in response to Tipper Gore's allegations that music incites people towards deviant behaviour, or influences their behaviour in general.

Wow. Lucid stuff.

Alan, do you perhaps have an electronic link to Zappa's entire submission (I assume these quotes are from his submissions to Congress on censorship). Did a google, put could only find this interview he did post-submision?

http://www.freemuse.org/sw4213.asp

Thanks

Riaan C

Vintage-Vibe

? Me wonders what music Bob Mugabe and Bill Clinton listen to - maybe we can get those bands & genres banned ?

AlanRatcliffe

Reef wrote What's an Asshat.

One who wears their ass as a hat, i.e. has their head up their ass.
Nice... no?

Alan, do you perhaps have an electronic link to Zappa's entire submission

http://downlode.org/Etext/zappa.html

Actually, a lot of the best repartee was during the debate on various TV programs before the actual hearings and submission.

Believe it or not but the most telling testimony against the PMRC at the Senate hearing came from John Denver, as even the most conservative senators were fans of his. His testimony to the fact that his song Rocky Mountain High had been banned by certain stations really hit home with them. Zappa's testimony was good, but his tone was way too aggressive. Dee Snider (of Twisted Sister) was surprisingly mild-mannered and articulate in his testimony too.

If you search for +Zappa +PMRC you should come up with lots of stuff. Try on YouTube too, as it was televised.

Manfred-Klose

They probably listen to rave or britney spears, if i take a geuss.

Graeme

Interestingly I recently read an interview with Barack Obama in Rolling Stone Magazine. Among his favourite bands/musicians were the Grateful Dead, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan....

Now there's someone who may make a good president.

Riaan

I got in late on this one...excellent posts! Sad that a community should blame music when this kid, who is obviously deranged, showed signs of abnormal behaviour right under their noses for some time, if the news reports are to be believed. No one did a thing and now it's all the music's fault.

A real deja vu feeling here...remember the 80's and the "total onslaught" and the endless crap about "backward recorded messages" on songs, and how it would brainwash us all... I remember our school being addressed by some fanatic idiot who warned that listening to Queen (!) would have us doing hard drugs in no time at all, by sheer subconscious subversion!

I'm nowadays told that even Bles Bridges's songs had those backward playing messages - upon investigation they turned out to be "potjiekos" recipes... ?

jakjak

I think the parents should be blamed to a point for allowing their kid to listen to slipknot.

Music comes in different flavors, and some is just plain unhealthy for the human mind.

Bands as extreme as slipknot, and the like, can play havok with a young mind.

I'm in no way blaming slipknot, cause they didnt directly tell the kid to kill, but i do blame slipknot for making low trash like they do.

Their contribution to music is primarily negative imho. I can't understand why "heavy" music is always coloured with so much "evil", "divisive", and agrresssive tones.

At the end of the day we ARE what we DO. And if you act aggressively, and with anger, then you are exactly that.... and thats not a good thing.

Renesongs

jakjak wrote Their contribution to music is primarily negative imho. I can't understand why "heavy" music is always coloured with so much "evil", "divisive", and agrresssive tones.

The point is that "this music" expresses the feelings and the aspirations of a group of people that are nihilistic, pissed off and feel marginalised. In most cases "this music" give these people a sense of identity, a representation and an outlet for their angst. They may get their tongue pierced and a swastika tattooed to their butt, maybe even cut themselves a bit but in the end the majority grow up and get over themselves.

Riaan wrote I'm nowadays told that even Bles Bridges's songs had those backward playing messages - upon investigation they turned out to be "potjiekos" recipes... ?

And when you play Country and Western music backwards your old dog comes alive again, You get your truck back the bank let's you keep your mobile home and Betty Sue comes back to you ?

LMinnie

Renesongs wrote Which if any of the following, in your own opinion, incite the most social reprehensible acts such as, arson, destruction of property, murder, genocide, subjugation, slavery, mass suicide, abuse of women and children, war:-

a) Sport
b) Music
c) Drugs
d) Alcohol
e) The Devil
f) Psychosis
f) Religion
g) Politics

I think most likely causes are people who get drunk at sporting events start arguing about religion and the devil then politics gets dragged in, somebody snorts some coke gets psycotic while listening to some hectic music and chucks a bottle at someone else.....Whammo!...You have a soccer riot!

A mixture of one,two or all of the above things leads to social violence.Cant be narrowed down to one thing.

.....in my humble opinion.....

LMinnie

Whoops.... screwed that up!

MiKeZilLA

jakjak wrote I think the parents should be blamed to a point for allowing their kid to listen to slipknot.
Music comes in different flavors, and some is just plain unhealthy for the human mind.
Bands as extreme as slipknot, and the like, can play havok with a young mind.
I'm in no way blaming slipknot, cause they didnt directly tell the kid to kill, but i do blame slipknot for making low trash like they do.
Their contribution to music is primarily negative imho. I can't understand why "heavy" music is always coloured with so much "evil", "divisive", and agrresssive tones.
At the end of the day we ARE what we DO. And if you act aggressively, and with anger, then you are exactly that.... and thats not a good thing.

Ja perhaps we should form a committee who can weed out the undesirable music.... We'll let them decide who's opinion is worth being recorded or not. Maybe they should start out by recalling all the undesirable music now... We can have a nice bonfire...

Ok I'll remove my toungue from my cheek now...

But IMHO if you don't like it don't buy it. If we're concerned about it lets inform parent as they're clearly ignoring the warning stickers - if they even care what their kids are listening too. But imagine being told you can no longer be a muso cos what you have to say is deemed socially unacceptable.... i mean that'd kinda suck wouldn't it.....

ConradP

jakjak wrote I think the parents should be blamed to a point for allowing their kid to listen to slipknot.

Music comes in different flavors, and some is just plain unhealthy for the human mind.

Bands as extreme as slipknot, and the like, can play havok with a young mind.

I'm in no way blaming slipknot, cause they didnt directly tell the kid to kill, but i do blame slipknot for making low trash like they do.

Their contribution to music is primarily negative imho. I can't understand why "heavy" music is always coloured with so much "evil", "divisive", and agrresssive tones.

At the end of the day we ARE what we DO. And if you act aggressively, and with anger, then you are exactly that.... and thats not a good thing.

Yes but look he would've found a way to listen to Slipknot anyway. I believe that, ulitimately, the onus lies with the boy's mental state going unnoticed. He obviously has a fragile mind and I think his parents should have noticed that. I listen to Dream Theater and if my brain were anymore fragile I would have believed I am a reincarnated girl by now.

On the other side of the coin is the artist's perspective, I think an artist is not only responsible for appealing to a target market but also for what influence the subject matter can have on that small portion of society that is clinically on the other side of sanity. I mean, I would love to write "all Hijackers should be hung by their figgin!" but someone like this kid could see that as a command from a higher source and boom! we have a rampage killer.

I dunno. In my opinion, it is not deranged killers that are society's main problem anyway. It is the rational, intelligent, calculated seeemingly benign creatures that are the real problem because they don't get caught. We have tons of these in SA.

OK I'll shut up now...

Conrad

jakjak

MiKeZilLA wrote
jakjak wrote I think the parents should be blamed to a point for allowing their kid to listen to slipknot.
Music comes in different flavors, and some is just plain unhealthy for the human mind.
Bands as extreme as slipknot, and the like, can play havok with a young mind.
I'm in no way blaming slipknot, cause they didnt directly tell the kid to kill, but i do blame slipknot for making low trash like they do.
Their contribution to music is primarily negative imho. I can't understand why "heavy" music is always coloured with so much "evil", "divisive", and agrresssive tones.
At the end of the day we ARE what we DO. And if you act aggressively, and with anger, then you are exactly that.... and thats not a good thing.
But IMHO if you don't like it don't buy it. If we're concerned about it lets inform parent as they're clearly ignoring the warning stickers - if they even care what their kids are listening too. But imagine being told you can no longer be a muso cos what you have to say is deemed socially unacceptable.... i mean that'd kinda suck wouldn't it.....

I don't think anyone is saying they should be prevented from making music, the problem is the clear decision by record labels to promote it. I know they are a business, but this is an issue with corporate responsibility. If these guy want to release their angst let them do it, but don't promote it to the public when you know full well warning labels mean nothing and young impressionable kids will listen to it.

Nowadays with the internet, it's ofcourse impossible to stop the spreading of any music. Music labels or not. What is needed is education as is usually the case. Parents need to monitor what there kids listen to or watch.

jakjak

ConradP wrote
jakjak wrote I think the parents should be blamed to a point for allowing their kid to listen to slipknot.

Music comes in different flavors, and some is just plain unhealthy for the human mind.

Bands as extreme as slipknot, and the like, can play havok with a young mind.

I'm in no way blaming slipknot, cause they didnt directly tell the kid to kill, but i do blame slipknot for making low trash like they do.

Their contribution to music is primarily negative imho. I can't understand why "heavy" music is always coloured with so much "evil", "divisive", and agrresssive tones.

At the end of the day we ARE what we DO. And if you act aggressively, and with anger, then you are exactly that.... and thats not a good thing.

Yes but look he would've found a way to listen to Slipknot anyway. I believe that, ulitimately, the onus lies with the boy's mental state going unnoticed. He obviously has a fragile mind and I think his parents should have noticed that. I listen to Dream Theater and if my brain were anymore fragile I would have believed I am a reincarnated girl by now.

On the other side of the coin is the artist's perspective, I think an artist is not only responsible for appealing to a target market but also for what influence the subject matter can have on that small portion of society that is clinically on the other side of sanity. I mean, I would love to write "all Hijackers should be hung by their figgin!" but someone like this kid could see that as a command from a higher source and boom! we have a rampage killer.

I dunno. In my opinion, it is not deranged killers that are society's main problem anyway. It is the rational, intelligent, calculated seeemingly benign creatures that are the real problem because they don't get caught. We have tons of these in SA.

OK I'll shut up now...

Conrad

Well said, i agree with you.

I think my main want from all of this is just education for the parents. Many just allow their kids to listen or watch anything. Sure for many kids "its just a phase", but i think its wrong to assume the phase doesnt have an affect later on. Everything we do changes us somehow, thats how we change and grow.

Would the average kid listen to slipknot and then proceed to kill someone. Obviously not.

But that doesnt mean there aren't lower degrees of negative effects which could be viewed as undesireable.

Even the off chance it might drive the pychopath over the edge tells you it isnt healthy.

It's all a question of parents doing their jobs, and frankly the bad press slipknot is getting will hopefully have one side effect of reminding parents they need to do their jobs.

P.s. I'm not trying to sound like a right wing fundamentalist. ?

MiKeZilLA

the problem is the clear decision by record labels to promote it

:? Ok so as an artist i can make whatever music I like but i shouldn't be allowed to sell it.....

ok i'm being a bit difficult....

Point of the matter is no matter how you regulate it the regulation is the problem. The bigger problem is societal i.e. if we were healthy as a society bands like slipknot might have a slightly harder time of it selling albums (perhaps) All i'm saying is it's a slippery slope when you start silencing artists...

tyrone-govender

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=103228

Corey Taylor Finally responds and correctly so... Plausable deniability.. u gotta love it...

NorioDS

[me=Norio]looks at jakjak[/me]

Pierre? Didn't notice you hiding there ?

(just kidding!)

azraelscorn

I agree with all of u..
I wrote a letter to the newspaper regarding this..people are so quick to blame others rather then themselves..
I've been listening to metal for 5years and i have no violent tendencies, social disorders or drug problems, so F*** the stereotyping..

LMinnie

'ere 'ere!! ?

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