PeteM
ZarK wrote:
There are many ways of looking at this and this could end in a rather long debate to be honest… I prefer playing a solo as the artist intended it to be as per recording. This way I'm also picking up on different musician's personal styles instead of injecting my own style each time... I prefer to express myself through my own music... To each his/her own…
Yeah, I'm not saying any way is wrong, just expressing the way I approach the title of the thread,
"What's the best way to cover a solo in a song"
Seventhson
I was thinking about it. I do tend to play my own solo with a bit of there stuff mixed in it. I just thought that would be a lazy fools way(I am not very confidant with my playing)
Renesongs
Learning a solo note for note can be a long and tedious process if you don't know the artist you imitating well. If I really like a a guitarist what I do is try to learn about 5 or 6 of his songs at a time in a rough sort of way. Look for common riffs in all of the songs build these as a sort of signature riff library. Then take a song I like that this artist hasn't covered and try and play the solo in his style. Now go back to the particular song I want to solo to and just learn the opening licks and a few others that seem important to me and then improvise in the style of the artist for the rest of the solo.
This may seem like an enormous amount of work to do for 1 little solo but what you get out of this approach is one hell of an improvement in your soloing ability
ZarK
Seventhson wrote:
I was thinking about it. I do tend to play my own solo with a bit of there stuff mixed in it. I just thought that would be a lazy fools way(I am not very confidant with my playing)
Here’s some of the advice I wish I had 19 years ago…
Confidence comes from both repetition and relaxation imo. Learn to relax your mind and muscles when you practice/play. Breathe. The more you stress and tense up, the more difficult it gets and the more energy you waste. When you start tensing up too much, put your instrument down and take a coffee break. Restart fresh and focused. Always practice with a metronome or a beat. Rather practice 15 minutes each day than 3 hours on a Saturday. Practice at a slow tempo and only increase the tempo when you are comfortable repeating a pattern faultless at least 5 times (some would say 10 times) in succession. Confidence, speed and control will come in time. Be dedicated and focused and the rest will follow. Make every note count! Don’t doodle on the guitar without thinking and experiencing what you’re doing. That’s the easiest way to learn bad habits that usually takes much more time to unlearn than it took to learn in the first place. Laying a solid foundation in the beginning sets the stage for rapid growth in the years to come… …and don’t be too hard on yourself!
All of the best!
Bob-Dubery
One potential pitfall is trying to figure things out from tabs downloaded from the Internet. This is a risky game because there's no QC in most cases. I have gone looking for tabs from time to time and mostly (not always, but mostly) it's been a case of still not knowing what the artist did but realising (sometimes after a lot of slog) that the tab is wrong.
This is NOT a problem with tab.
The flip side of this is that when you do get tab that is accurate and well laid out this usually speaks of a person who has taken time to do things properly. Think nice thoughts about such people, maybe even drop them a brief line of thanks.
Keira-WitherKay
i have one question................... " do you play in a tribute band?" like the pink floyd tribute band ect ect
cos if the answer is NO then forget learning solo's note for note ........cos if you have not worked it out by now the great muso's all have their own styles even within the same style/genre ............ and YES all are influenced some quite noticably by other great players.....
so my advice is listen to everyone you admire ...listen closely then play your own solo's but draw on that feel.............. cos thats how we all learn and improve our styles
i listen to someone like segovia/martin taylor/ paco di lucia ect ect but never want to copy their style but definitely i draw from it and learn from it .............. see their technique , disect it but then adapt it to fit my own style.............and therefore make it my own
so if you already playing solo's well within your own style at a pro level ............ f%$k covering other artists note for note since you already at a place musically where you have your own voice....... and thats the ultimate goal unless you a tribute band artist
but remember keep listening cos muso's no matter how good/famous keep growing and developing their styles their entire lives....and never stop working on their own style/tone/composing /technique ect
Seventhson
Keira WitherKay wrote:
i have one question................... " do you play in a tribute band?" like the pink floyd tribute band ect ect
cos if the answer is NO then forget learning solo's note for note ........cos if you have not worked it out by now the great muso's all have their own styles even within the same style/genre ............ and YES all are influenced some quite noticably by other great players.....
so my advice is listen to everyone you admire ...listen closely then play your own solo's but draw on that feel.............. cos thats how we all learn and improve our styles
i listen to someone like segovia/martin taylor/ paco di lucia ect ect but never want to copy their style but definitely i draw from it and learn from it .............. see their technique , disect it but then adapt it to fit my own style.............and therefore make it my own
so if you already playing solo's well within your own style at a pro level ............ f%$k covering other artists note for note since you already at a place musically where you have your own voice....... and thats the ultimate goal unless you a tribute band artist
but remember keep listening cos muso's no matter how good/famous keep growing and developing their styles their entire lives....and never stop working on their own style/tone/composing /technique ect
I am in a cover band at the moment and my guitarist is a bit fussy when it comes to doing the solo note by note.
DonovanB
The first solo I learned was Metallica - Nothing Else Matters, from the Black album. Then they released it on S&M with a slightly different solo. When I saw them in Durban it was again, different.
I also reckon if someone is fussy about how you play something they should be playing it instead. I knew a drummer like that who moaned about it. Needless to say I don't associate much with him these days cos all he did was bring you down. No fun in that...
Seventhson
Donovan Banks wrote:
The first solo I learned was Metallica - Nothing Else Matters, from the Black album. Then they released it on S&M with a slightly different solo. When I saw them in Durban it was again, different.
I also reckon if someone is fussy about how you play something they should be playing it instead. I knew a drummer like that who moaned about it. Needless to say I don't associate much with him these days cos all he did was bring you down. No fun in that...
Well I am better at fast solos than he is. My first solo I learnt was Black Sabbath's Paranoid.
singemonkey
Re: Keira,
I agree in principle, but rock/blues players like me often use transcription to develop our techniques as well. I'll find that I don't really understand what the player's doing to get that feel until I've learned to pull off those licks in the same way. It's not that I'll use all of that in my own playing, but working on the tiny nuances of a player's style - and even the construction of an entire solo, can give you a strong insight into how someone who does stuff that turns you on built the solo - something that they may not even be able to explain in words.
That's the value for me. Their work becomes a lesson.
DonovanB
singemonkey wrote:
That's the value for me. Their work becomes a lesson.
It's like learning how they think and how the approach solo's. From there you can take different approaches in your own music.
Renesongs
@ Keira - IMO learning solo's in the rock genre is very valuable learning experience akin to learning to play a classical piece but by ear. I once learned a cello suite by Bach from a recording of Segovia playing it. Of course I did not want to play it exactly the way Segovia did but I wanted to play it the way Bach wrote it. (BTW I later found the score and between Andre and myself we made a few interesting "interpretations" but then a guitar is not a cello after all)
Warren
My suggestion:
It's important that you book-end your solos in such a way that the rest of your band can consistently recognise them. This is, IMO, one of the reasons that drummers, bassists or vocalists prefer you to play the solo "just like the recording", because they're accustomed to those particular licks or melodies in certain places, and it helps them feel where they are in the song. Especially during extended solos.
Of course, if your band is really tight you will simply feel each other out (har har) and you should be able to improvise quite easily, even during well-recognised melodic solos.
In the end, it's more important to capture the feel of the solo than create a note-for-note copy of it. This may involve pretty detailed scrutiny of a guitarist's style (as per Renesong's post) before you can pull it off on the fly, but at least it saves you the tedium of trying to copy every solo precisely, and still sounds authentic. And, of course, adds tremendously to your own playing.
Seventhson
Renesongs wrote:
@ Keira - IMO learning solo's in the rock genre is very valuable learning experience akin to learning to play a classical piece but by ear. I once learned a cello suite by Bach from a recording of Segovia playing it. Of course I did not want to play it exactly the way Segovia did but I wanted to play it the way Bach wrote it. (BTW I later found the score and between Andre and myself we made a few interesting "interpretations" but then a guitar is not a cello after all)
That is why I learn other peoples solos. I love learning from my fav guitarists.
ZarK
I believe it's a great idea to be disciplined enough to cover music note for note, using the correct technique to create the correct tone for the music you're covering. I believe this just as much as I believe one should not constrain yourself when expressing yourself through- and by creating your own music. I've done numerous solos note for note and I know for a fact I've benefited from the hours of discipline it required. Apart from acquiring new technique it forces you to see music and the creative process from the pro’s perspective. Today I play some of these solos and pieces of music differently from how they where originally written but this has been a conscious progression from the original…
As an example. I've been jamming with another guitarist for almost two months. He's very creative and an excellent songwriter. If you saw him play his own creations you'd think he's a phenomenal guitarist -and rightfully so! He is very good. The catch is that he has never learnt to be disciplined enough to learn music the way it was recorded. He gets bored long before nailing it correctly. He therefore struggles to learn new pieces from random guitarists/musicians. He struggles to 'get' which techniques should be used when listening to new material. Put him in a room and start creating a new song and in no time you'll have an excellently arranged piece of great music. Give him a challenging new song to cover, and he folds... I've spent many hours helping him focus and get more disciplined in learning new material correctly and believe me he protested and looked for excuses and told me he’s getting bored etc. etc. Whatever! In less than two months his skill level and confidence has skyrocketed! Why? Because I honestly believe that if you're serious about music, you should take the time to be very disciplined in certain aspects whilst just as importantly, allowing total creative freedom on the flip side.
I honestly think its bad advice to tell someone to just do their own thing without learning from musicians who have already dedicated the hours upon hours required… The only way you can truly learn from such musicians is by copying their technique to the note and then breaking the music down into it’s fundamentals to decipher the thought process the artist must have followed to create said pieces of music… The catch is you should apply this disciplined approach to random music and styles that fall within your interest field or even out of it. Not just one or two of your favourite musicians’ music, otherwise you will inadvertently start to copy their style instead of finding your own.
The ultimate goal is to create your own style/voice. To me it’s crucial to study other guitarists’ technique and style to ultimately grow into your own style and to find your own unique voice…
Renesongs
"When you work out a song, a jazz standard or a pop song I hear on the radio I think it is important to work out everything on bass, the piano, trumpet and saxophone solos even the singing...yeah drums as well..." Jaco Pastorius
IceCreamMan
Excellent thread .... taking it all in..thanks all
BMU
"I have stifled my soloing with bloody slayer(they have absolutely no technique)."
LOL true that. Slayer cost me a lot of years of wasted time early on, the lightbulb only switched on much later regarding disciplined approach, metronome etc.
I'm FAR too lazy and there's too little time in life to learn other people's solos. I'll plug away at certain techniques, but never entire solos. The way I combine those techniques is 100% mine, for better or worse. (80% chance of "worse" LOL)
Renesongs makes a good point which I agree with - it's a lot of work to learn someone else's style. It's not just learning the notes, it's programming new procedular memory patterns ("muscle memory") into your head - very time consuming. Can only be done with 10's or even 100's of hours of repetition. Use your own judgment which mix of the two approaches is optimal for you.
Seventhson
The thing with slayer is that there rhythm is very good that has helped me allot.
I want to try learn some of daves and chris broderick and maybe even gary moores style in playing guitar.
Renesongs
Did I mention that learning to play rhythm well is essential to learning to solo well. Many guitarists solo style are based on exellent rhythm techniques, SRV and Hendrix for instance.
