DonovanB
The first solo I learned was Metallica - Nothing Else Matters, from the Black album. Then they released it on S&M with a slightly different solo. When I saw them in Durban it was again, different.
I also reckon if someone is fussy about how you play something they should be playing it instead. I knew a drummer like that who moaned about it. Needless to say I don't associate much with him these days cos all he did was bring you down. No fun in that...
Seventhson
Donovan Banks wrote:
The first solo I learned was Metallica - Nothing Else Matters, from the Black album. Then they released it on S&M with a slightly different solo. When I saw them in Durban it was again, different.
I also reckon if someone is fussy about how you play something they should be playing it instead. I knew a drummer like that who moaned about it. Needless to say I don't associate much with him these days cos all he did was bring you down. No fun in that...
Well I am better at fast solos than he is. My first solo I learnt was Black Sabbath's Paranoid.
singemonkey
Re: Keira,
I agree in principle, but rock/blues players like me often use transcription to develop our techniques as well. I'll find that I don't really understand what the player's doing to get that feel until I've learned to pull off those licks in the same way. It's not that I'll use all of that in my own playing, but working on the tiny nuances of a player's style - and even the construction of an entire solo, can give you a strong insight into how someone who does stuff that turns you on built the solo - something that they may not even be able to explain in words.
That's the value for me. Their work becomes a lesson.
DonovanB
singemonkey wrote:
That's the value for me. Their work becomes a lesson.
It's like learning how they think and how the approach solo's. From there you can take different approaches in your own music.
Renesongs
@ Keira - IMO learning solo's in the rock genre is very valuable learning experience akin to learning to play a classical piece but by ear. I once learned a cello suite by Bach from a recording of Segovia playing it. Of course I did not want to play it exactly the way Segovia did but I wanted to play it the way Bach wrote it. (BTW I later found the score and between Andre and myself we made a few interesting "interpretations" but then a guitar is not a cello after all)
Warren
My suggestion:
It's important that you book-end your solos in such a way that the rest of your band can consistently recognise them. This is, IMO, one of the reasons that drummers, bassists or vocalists prefer you to play the solo "just like the recording", because they're accustomed to those particular licks or melodies in certain places, and it helps them feel where they are in the song. Especially during extended solos.
Of course, if your band is really tight you will simply feel each other out (har har) and you should be able to improvise quite easily, even during well-recognised melodic solos.
In the end, it's more important to capture the feel of the solo than create a note-for-note copy of it. This may involve pretty detailed scrutiny of a guitarist's style (as per Renesong's post) before you can pull it off on the fly, but at least it saves you the tedium of trying to copy every solo precisely, and still sounds authentic. And, of course, adds tremendously to your own playing.
Seventhson
Renesongs wrote:
@ Keira - IMO learning solo's in the rock genre is very valuable learning experience akin to learning to play a classical piece but by ear. I once learned a cello suite by Bach from a recording of Segovia playing it. Of course I did not want to play it exactly the way Segovia did but I wanted to play it the way Bach wrote it. (BTW I later found the score and between Andre and myself we made a few interesting "interpretations" but then a guitar is not a cello after all)
That is why I learn other peoples solos. I love learning from my fav guitarists.
ZarK
I believe it's a great idea to be disciplined enough to cover music note for note, using the correct technique to create the correct tone for the music you're covering. I believe this just as much as I believe one should not constrain yourself when expressing yourself through- and by creating your own music. I've done numerous solos note for note and I know for a fact I've benefited from the hours of discipline it required. Apart from acquiring new technique it forces you to see music and the creative process from the pro’s perspective. Today I play some of these solos and pieces of music differently from how they where originally written but this has been a conscious progression from the original…
As an example. I've been jamming with another guitarist for almost two months. He's very creative and an excellent songwriter. If you saw him play his own creations you'd think he's a phenomenal guitarist -and rightfully so! He is very good. The catch is that he has never learnt to be disciplined enough to learn music the way it was recorded. He gets bored long before nailing it correctly. He therefore struggles to learn new pieces from random guitarists/musicians. He struggles to 'get' which techniques should be used when listening to new material. Put him in a room and start creating a new song and in no time you'll have an excellently arranged piece of great music. Give him a challenging new song to cover, and he folds... I've spent many hours helping him focus and get more disciplined in learning new material correctly and believe me he protested and looked for excuses and told me he’s getting bored etc. etc. Whatever! In less than two months his skill level and confidence has skyrocketed! Why? Because I honestly believe that if you're serious about music, you should take the time to be very disciplined in certain aspects whilst just as importantly, allowing total creative freedom on the flip side.
I honestly think its bad advice to tell someone to just do their own thing without learning from musicians who have already dedicated the hours upon hours required… The only way you can truly learn from such musicians is by copying their technique to the note and then breaking the music down into it’s fundamentals to decipher the thought process the artist must have followed to create said pieces of music… The catch is you should apply this disciplined approach to random music and styles that fall within your interest field or even out of it. Not just one or two of your favourite musicians’ music, otherwise you will inadvertently start to copy their style instead of finding your own.
The ultimate goal is to create your own style/voice. To me it’s crucial to study other guitarists’ technique and style to ultimately grow into your own style and to find your own unique voice…
Renesongs
"When you work out a song, a jazz standard or a pop song I hear on the radio I think it is important to work out everything on bass, the piano, trumpet and saxophone solos even the singing...yeah drums as well..." Jaco Pastorius
IceCreamMan
Excellent thread .... taking it all in..thanks all
BMU
"I have stifled my soloing with bloody slayer(they have absolutely no technique)."
LOL true that. Slayer cost me a lot of years of wasted time early on, the lightbulb only switched on much later regarding disciplined approach, metronome etc.
I'm FAR too lazy and there's too little time in life to learn other people's solos. I'll plug away at certain techniques, but never entire solos. The way I combine those techniques is 100% mine, for better or worse. (80% chance of "worse" LOL)
Renesongs makes a good point which I agree with - it's a lot of work to learn someone else's style. It's not just learning the notes, it's programming new procedular memory patterns ("muscle memory") into your head - very time consuming. Can only be done with 10's or even 100's of hours of repetition. Use your own judgment which mix of the two approaches is optimal for you.
Seventhson
The thing with slayer is that there rhythm is very good that has helped me allot.
I want to try learn some of daves and chris broderick and maybe even gary moores style in playing guitar.
Renesongs
Did I mention that learning to play rhythm well is essential to learning to solo well. Many guitarists solo style are based on exellent rhythm techniques, SRV and Hendrix for instance.
Seventhson
Of course. I am a good rhythm guitarist.
Bob-Dubery
Renesongs wrote:
Did I mention that learning to play rhythm well is essential to learning to solo well. Many guitarists solo style are based on exellent rhythm techniques, SRV and Hendrix for instance.
Hendrix was a fantastic rhythm player. So many people think that "rhythm" is just playing the bare bones chords of the song. It's so much more than that. I must confess though that I haven't made connection between Jimi's rhythm work (which I adore) and his lead playing.
Seventhson
X-rated Bob wrote:
Renesongs wrote:
Did I mention that learning to play rhythm well is essential to learning to solo well. Many guitarists solo style are based on exellent rhythm techniques, SRV and Hendrix for instance.
Hendrix was a fantastic rhythm player. So many people think that "rhythm" is just playing the bare bones chords of the song. It's so much more than that. I must confess though that I haven't made connection between Jimi's rhythm work (which I adore) and his lead playing.
His solos are just so strange so is some of his rhythm. Especially listening it to the way it was meant to be listened to?
Renesongs
I haven't made connection between Jimi's rhythm work (which I adore) and his lead playing.
The most obvious ones are Little wing, Castles Made of sand, and The Wind Cries Mary
