Loopheadz . . .

louwd123

Hi All,

As I'm only 6 days old on the forum I tread cautiously and am I open for correction if what I'm asking is out of rythm. I've searched through the forum couldn't find a dedicated thread for loopheadz and I presume it is because it isn't an effect but rather a practice tool or unique, practically used, toy. hehe.

In my own usage of a looper, and being more of a gadget junkie, I got the Digitech Jamman just because it has a USB port and it allows you to load files onto it for looping. But it has a very difficult time format to figure out at what tempo the loop was developed and should be played back. The wonderful measurement of SAMPLES/BEAT.

Well I don't want this to sound like a tutorial and what I want to get at is that I developed a little application (And I'm not selling it), but I would like to make it available to any other jamman users who keep on forgetting the damned formula to calculate your BPM into this weird measurement that needs to go into the xml file on the looper. If there are any people of this weird looping "sub-culture" around in SA, please say hi and feel free to use and abuse the little calculator.

For the other aucks who may ask, why the fuss? The little gem allows you to split backing tracks up into sections and load them as separate loops as you can seamlessly switch from one part to another to do repeats if you want to. It allows you to create the "perfect" drum machine also by loading decent drum loops from your DAW into the thing and have lovely samples played at CD quality while switching seamlessly between them by tapping a pedal on the looper to change to the next pattern automatically at the end of the current loop.

Once again as I said if I'm out of line please correct me. Thanks, Louw

For those who are interested the app can be downloaded for free here:
worship.bergtee.co.za/JammanCalc.zip

bloukie

Sjoe Louw - what an application, congrats!!!

I use a looper but I've got the Boss 20 XL. Furthermore, I'm more into creating the loops in a live setting so I won't be able to benefit from your creativity and magnanimous offer.

I do wish that I had an application that could give me a more sparse sound at certain moments in a song - going back and removing a loop or two would be great - but I don't know how that would be possible really.

Anyway, I really just wanted to say hi to a fellow looper and thank you for being so nice, hehe!

Mooi loop. ?

louwd123

Thanks for the kind words. What you are hungering after is the oasis of loopers. And the only one that gives that kind of functionality is the big Boss looper the RC-6? I think. It has three looping sections and you can then switch sections on and of seperately. But I suppose you already knew that, but it is nice to talk loop(the unofficial loophead language ? ) to someone. :bopping:

PS: In adding this smiley I realize that looping is the animated smiley of music.

guitarboy2828

I'm not sure what to say, except it's the RC-50 that has 3 separate loop sections..

And, I got me a little boss rc-2. I really wanted to get the new jamman stereo, and was planning on it, until the rc-2 came up for a price I COULD not refuse! ?

bloukie

Thanks guys, I wasn't aware that the RC-50 could do that - thanks. I'm still new at this loop thing :?

Mmmm, how long till that Christmas bonus again? ?

Sean

louwd123 wrote:
As I'm only 6 days old on the forum I tread cautiously and am I open for correction if what I'm asking is out of rythm.........

..............Once again as I said if I'm out of line please correct me. Thanks, Louw

Absolutely not at all! ? It's why the forum exists. To chat, share opinions, and share stuff ?

+1 and thanked ?

louwd123

Thanks Sean. I realise that I'm a bit overly cautious, but in my years of intense internet usage(i come from the IT industry originally, but not anymore thankfully) I have withdrawn from much forum interaction because people have been to my experience mostly a pain in guitar forums. I've even experienced it on the international Guitar Forum. So I really am pleasantly surprised to see the open and honest way the SA guys are doing it without taking offense. Okay, somewhat off topic. But a compliment to all.

Back to looping though. Have any of you guys tried to implement looping within a small band. It sounds like a strange question as you might think that loopers and band members may be somewhat on the opposite sides of the presentation spectrum. In our usage it have worked once in a band setting, but I've only tried it once and the guys didn't even notice that I wasn't playing the sequence physically anymore and just enjoyed the instrumental play and soloing. hehehe.

But on a more practical note, has anyone messed around with looping in a band setting and could you maybe share on your experience.

guitarboy2828

louwd123 wrote:
Back to looping though. Have any of you guys tried to implement looping within a small band. It sounds like a strange question as you might think that loopers and band members may be somewhat on the opposite sides of the presentation spectrum. In our usage it have worked once in a band setting, but I've only tried it once and the guys didn't even notice that I wasn't playing the sequence physically anymore and just enjoyed the instrumental play and soloing. hehehe.

But on a more practical note, has anyone messed around with looping in a band setting and could you maybe share on your experience.

I personally haven't used it in a band set up, mainly coz i don't really have a band. HOWEVER, I went to a show where Ard matthews (Guy from just jinger) used a RC-50 and he BLEW MY MIND! It was just him on his guitar and he would do loops, sing over it and then do solo's and then he'd use his iphone to do some drum loops. It was pretty amazing, everyone there was absolutely in awe of him. So yeah, loopers can be used big time. I unfortunately limit mine to practicing, but that's because I don't play live enough! ?

bloukie

Louw,

No, I haven't used it with a band but I once experimented with bringing a small drum kit along to compliment what I was doing with my acoustic and electric guitar.

The problem I faced were:
- the bleeding as a result of instruments that are miked up (e.g. drums) and the negative impact this has on the quality of the loops
- hearing the loop properly so that one can accompany it. Too much volume increases the chance of bleeding (see above).

What I am doing currently is dropping my acoustic an octave down through a Boss OC-2 and then laying guitar tracks (including percussive tapping on the guitar).

Its working fine 'cept for the odd loop timing/tempo hiccup. But that's kinda expected anyway...

louwd123

guitarboy2828 wrote:
I went to a show where Ard matthews (Guy from just jinger) used a RC-50 and he BLEW MY MIND! It was just him on his guitar and he would do loops, sing over it and then do solo's and then he'd use his iphone to do some drum loops. It was pretty amazing, ...

I was soundman at a place where a bloke from the states was playing his acoustic and singing and using a Line6 Dl4 as delay and loop function. He would build a lekka loopy through his song and his accompaniment was a bloke playing violin from Bloemfontein of all places. When they were lekker in a groove and the loop was nice and full the guitarist would put down his guitar and go and sit behind the drums and slowly get working on it while the violinist goes off on his own for a kind of instrumental break in the song, in a very contemporary and appealing way. I was able to make a multitrack recording(with permission) of the whole 2nd evening and was able to fiddle with the mix after the event. Sounds fantastic in a musical way. In a technical way I suppose theres lots of hassles with mic'ing technique etc. as it wasn't really a pro sound setup. I can really echo your words, "BLEW MY MIND". The usage of loopers in improvisational live performances really is fantastic. It's a bug that bites you as it really challenges your creativity as you mess around with it while practicing.

If anyone is interested in hearing the application of the loop in the live performance I can avail the looping fragments of the recording for demonstrative and creative inspiration purposes only. Dunno how you can contact me offline as I dont really wanna post my email addy here in public for all kinds of bots slurp up. Any suggestions on how to safely share info here on the forum if it is allowed?

aja

Here are some interesting uses of loops:

Imogen heap is one of my favourites:

Beardyman doing loops, standup, beatboxing - the whole show! I dare anyone to challenge beardyman when it comes to use of live loops or stage personality...

Beardyman and ducky:

More of beardyman doing the best beatboxing I have ever heard (better than rahzel IMO): yeah completely unrelated to this thread...

louwd123

Yep Beardyman is legend. i noticed him when I was searching for usages of the Digitech Jamman and behold I came across a vid of him where he is doing small recordings and actually using 2 kaoss pads and some other stuff I don't know about and slap-bang in the middle of it all sits a digitech jamman. I think the only reason he uses it is because it is the only looper that doesn't limit the time length of a loop to a certain amount of seconds, but allows the recording to go to the extent of the memory card you've got in there. 2gb max (That is my Inspector Gadget conclusion).

Otherwise the application of looping is exponentially diverse to the amount of people that use it.

Just to get back to Bloukie's attempt to get a drum kit in there as well. Interesting idea to loop some real drums. If i understand you correctly that is what you are trying to do?

bloukie wrote: ...
No, I haven't used it with a band but I once experimented with bringing a small drum kit along to compliment what I was doing with my acoustic and electric guitar.

...

AlanRatcliffe

I have a whole book of conversion tables between tempo at various note values and different formats: time, frequency, samples, SMPTE, MTC, etc. Has saved my butt with some or other odd bit of gear many times over. Thankfully, most gear these days uses the simple tempo/note value settings, so I'm using the book less and less. I have a delay time calc on my site too: www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/delaycalc.shtml

No problem posting a link to your app (or others) if it's free and it has value to someone.

louwd123 wrote: I've even experienced it on the international Guitar Forum.

IME, it's the big international forums that have that problem, not the smaller local ones like this, where we are still very much a single, relatively undivided community.

Have any of you guys tried to implement looping within a small band.

Not personally, but one thing jumps out at me as important - A drummer who can follow and not just lead (or keeps super solid timing) and ideally is comfortable with a click. There is nothing worse than having something at one tempo and the band gradually move out of synch.

AlanRatcliffe

louwd123 wrote: Dunno how you can contact me offline as I dont really wanna post my email addy here in public for all kinds of bots slurp up. Any suggestions on how to safely share info here on the forum if it is allowed?

Use the forum's PM (Personal Message) function. You can exchange PMs with other members pretty much like email, but only members can access it.

louwd123

Some people are just resourceful and you are one of them Alan. Much appreciated. I agree with you concerning the drummer. we are grateful for the guy we have who is willing to focus on what is happening in the band as well and not just moving along with his own emotions. How the looper has helped him actually was when we are jamming and he wanted to attempt a few new things in his style of playing, the band can go on with the loop and he can just get himself together and try again without distracting or breaking the rythm of the rest and even if it does we just get into the groove so much faster again to practice that new "thing" in a song. It isn't something that we are implementing often, but it does help to have a strong reference for practice sessions. It requires however that the drummer has a stronger than normal monitor level with him.

guitarboy2828

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I have a delay time calc on my site too: www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/delaycalc.shtml

??? Why, OH WHY are you only posting this now.. I didn't even know such a thing existed!!! ? haha.. All those days of trying to work it out and guessing! ?

AlanRatcliffe

guitarboy2828 wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I have a delay time calc on my site too: www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/delaycalc.shtml
??? Why, OH WHY are you only posting this now.. I didn't even know such a thing existed!!! ? haha.. All those days of trying to work it out and guessing! ?

:-[ Syncing the time of everything to the tempo is second nature to me now and it's so easy to do these days that I don't even think about it. Everything I use automatically syncs with the project tempo (or with pedals I set the tempo), then it's just a case of setting the desired note value. The only time I use manual delay settings is if I want to push or pull the feel of the timing a little. Then I use the delay calc, which I have on my audio machine's desktop.

Also, I suppose it's partly because delay calcs are so easy to find on the internet these days. It wasn't always that way - I've never been good at math, so early on I sat with a calculator and manually wrote out a table with all the times I used (some of our older members might remember the magical writing sticks we called "pens"). Then I bought the book of tables about 15 years ago and never looked back. Eventually at some tempos I know the various delay times off the top of my head (notably the easy ones like 60, 90 and 120 BPM and the ones I often used like 126 & 128 BPM).