EPIPHONE Guitars: The good, the bad and the not so ugly??

ZarK · 2010-07-07T11:56:39+00:00

In my quest for some decent budget guitars to be used for alternate tunings only, I have considered many. One brand that stuck in my mind over the years is Epiphone. Many top artists have used them and in the early 90's I can recall that their finish was even better than their Gibson Les Paul and SG counterparts when I compared them back-to-back... What are your opinions, experiences and thoughts around these guitars?

vic

Should Zark still wish to proceed with his upgrading project, my advice to him (if I may) is to replace the Epi PUPS with a pair of Customshop PAFS, even it's expensive. But not just any ol' Epi...it MUST have a mahogany body and a mahogany -set-neck and a solid maple cap. Buy it used if possible.
Doing this will ensure that the sound is at least not tinny (as in metal) and hopefully the mahogany and maple cap will come to the party as well.
I am eagerly looking forward to the result...good luck! ?

PS: you may also need to change the tone caps to bumblebees...I dunno

Bob-Dubery

There's a danger here of taking so much time and spending so much money on making an Epi sound like a good Les Paul that you could have got there faster and cheaper buying a Tokai.

Please note: I have no financial stake in Tokai locally or nationally. I am just convinced about the quality and value for money that these axes offer.

vic

Tokai SA wrote
vic wrote
There you go, that's my point.

Killafo, singemonkey and yourself own Gibson Les Pauls, you know what they sound like...so if you guys play a lower priced version of one you can hear and feel whether it's like a good Gibson or not.
On the other hand, if someone's intention is to only get a "kind of Les Paulish" recorded tone, then by all means buy the cheapest copy you can find.

Unfortunately I have never played a Tokai LP for example....would really love to though.
However I have played a '56 Epi Goldtop (RI) and found that the sound from the P90's was a bit tinny......but the overall built quality was very good imho

AlanRatcliffe

chris77 wrote Knopfler's Brothers in arms (no idea what he did there, but it wasn't just lp into amp)

I'd put money on it being just that. Neck pickup on a vintage-style LP (that much I do know for sure - a mid 80's '59 reissue), a volume pedal for the swells/violining and into what sounds like a high gain amp with the gain turned down (Mesa? Soldano? Anyone know?). Also sounds like he has the tone down a bit, but the amp's trebles are boosted to compensate (or it's an edgy sounding amp anyway). I could be wrong, but that's how I'd try and recreate it.

Basically, that vocal tone is what a vintage style LP is all about AFAIC.

Banditman

I have played some of the MIJ Tokai LPs, vic.

Been fortunate enough to play quite a few Gibsons (from my own one, to friends' reissues, customs, standards, studios and a voodoo - the swamp ash one, and oldies on Denmark Street). Hey, I'm a fan of them. And the truth is that the Tokais stand on a par tone & feel-wise (without the plastic nubs on the fret ends) with the majority of sub 80K Gibsons in my own experience.

Singemonkey & vic have both made very good points about the tone issue. A Gibson Les Paul has several flavours (singemonkey), and there is a certain family characteristic "something" (vic). I'd honestly suggest you try an MIC Tokai before buying an Epi Les Paul to upgrade if all you're after is that "Gibsonish" sound. Make sure -as vic said - that you're not buying an Epi LP100 or Special which have bolt-on necks and are notably cheaper than the Standards.

If you're going to fork out, say, R4500 on a nice Epi Standard and then drop another R3500 - 4000 of pickups and electrics into it, then you might as well save the money & buy an MIJ Tokai which is head & shoulders better. If you're not overly fussed about nailing the sound, just buy & play an Epiphone. As long as you don't go getting upgradeitis a few months later.

Banditman

Quick thought on the subject of Gibsons & tone - you boys do know that Slash's famous Appetite For Destruction Les Paul was a used copy and not an original, do you?

Despite what Gibson's website would like you to believe.

singemonkey

But this does raise the problem of GAS escalation. If you buy an Epiphone or an MIC Tokai, and put some tone-riders in it, you'll still be happily under the price of an MIJ Tokai, and probably happy enough. They will have Les Paul tone, even if it's maybe not magnificent Les Paul tone.

I've suffered from this disease before. You want something that costs like, R3K and end up spending R10K on something completely different. Not necessarily a mistake, but it's important to remember why you're planning on buying and sticking to your original budget if possible.

chris77

Jeez, in that case it is brilliantly done. Respect!

vic

singemonkey wrote But this does raise the problem of GAS escalation. If you buy an Epiphone or an MIC Tokai, and put some tone-riders in it, you'll still be happily under the price of an MIJ Tokai, and probably happy enough. They will have Les Paul tone, even if it's maybe not magnificent Les Paul tone.

I've suffered from this disease before. You want something that costs like, R3K and end up spending R10K on something completely different. Not necessarily a mistake, but it's important to remember why you're planning on buying and sticking to your original budget if possible.

Was just wondering if the girls on GFSA also suffer from this disease..or is it only us guys..? Could it be that some of us have elevated levels of a yet-undiscovered- hormone...something like Testoguitarone ? ?

MikeM

Should we not maybe change this threads name to "Bash an Epi"?

singemonkey

MikeM wrote Should we not maybe change this threads name to "Bash an Epi"?

I missed the Epi bashing. Is it not showing in my browser? >☹

Bob-Dubery

MikeM wrote Should we not maybe change this threads name to "Bash an Epi"?

Que?

vic

MikeM wrote Should we not maybe change this threads name to "Bash an Epi"?

No it's not Epi bashing at all.. ?....but rather different opinions from members to Zark's envisaged "upgrading an Epi" project . Some members also provided alternatives to the simply swopping out some hardware approach, etc...that should not be read as being biased to certain brands, but rather an honest attempt to help Zark in his quest for a decent Les Paul tone (at the lowest price)

Warren

ZarK wrote
vic wrote Zark's intention is to upgrade an Epi to sound like a real Les Paul.....if I 'm correct? He sees it as a project so to speak.
I’d like to see once and for all how little I can spend to get a Les Paul sounding like the real deal. When we listen to the recording I'd like a pro to murmur: That's a Les Paul, no doubt. If I can achieve this at 25% of the original's price, I'll probably change a few of my own opinions…

Well, you're asking two quite different questions here, so to summarise:

Q: Would an Epiphone guitar fulfill my requirement for a decent, budget guitar for alternative tunings.

A:
- Yes, but...
- Be careful what you buy (applies to any purchase, really, including MiA Fenders and Gibsons)
- Consider a pickup upgrade

Q: Can I get a decent LP tone on a budget?

A:
- Opinions differ - See WoT ?

singemonkey

Warren wrote Q: Can I get a decent LP tone on a budget?

A:
- Opinions differ - See WoT ?

Definitely. You just have to be a bit lucky. Spending a lot doesn't necessarily guarantee great LP tone either. Budget LPs have limitations - many piece bodies, unusual woods, potential quality issues. But if you work with them, and choose good electronics, there's no reason you can't have excellent tone. Will the tone match that of a Gibson custom shop reissue, a top-end Tokai, or a hand made ESP Navigator? Probably not. But the difference may well be extremely subtle.

brazmonki

Rather ironic, but I'm selling my Epi Flying V goth and case for R2500 not neg. Seeing that we have so may epi fans here, anyone interested?

Gumtree ad:

http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-Epiphone-flying-V-goth-case-for-sale-R2500-W0QQAdIdZ216157970

singemonkey

brazmonki wrote Rather ironic, but I'm selling my Epi Flying V goth and case for R2500 not neg. Seeing that we have so may epi fans here, anyone interested?

Gumtree ad:

http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-Epiphone-flying-V-goth-case-for-sale-R2500-W0QQAdIdZ216157970

Best post it in the classified section and have a link to that.

MikeM

singemonkey wroteBudget LPs have limitations - many piece bodies, unusual woods, potential quality issues.

My Epi Standard has a 2 piece mahogany back, short tenon neck and a thick maple cap with a flame veneer.

All I am saying is Epiphones are not crap guitars. They're notorious for having terrible electronics and pups but they're solid guitars. Don't get me wrong though, MIJ Tokais are better in most cases. But if it's a R3k Epi vs an R9k Tokai, my decision is made (Even with the R1k toneriders that'll go into either guitar)

brazmonki

singemonkey wrote
brazmonki wrote Rather ironic, but I'm selling my Epi Flying V goth and case for R2500 not neg. Seeing that we have so may epi fans here, anyone interested?

Gumtree ad:

http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-Epiphone-flying-V-goth-case-for-sale-R2500-W0QQAdIdZ216157970
Best post it in the classified section and have a link to that.

Oops!!! ? ? ?

Sorry guys. Made one there as well. But rather disappointing to sell my first real axe. :'( :'(

vic

MikeM wrote
singemonkey wroteBudget LPs have limitations - many piece bodies, unusual woods, potential quality issues.
My Epi Standard has a 2 piece mahogany back, short tenon neck and a thick maple cap with a flame veneer.

All I am saying is Epiphones are not crap guitars. They're notorious for having terrible electronics and pups but they're solid guitars. Don't get me wrong though, MIJ Tokais are better in most cases. But if it's a R3k Epi vs an R9k Tokai, my decision is made (Even with the R1k toneriders that'll go into either guitar)

Of course not.
Guys you should have experienced the crappy guits we had to deal with in the 60's and early 70's..... those budget Hofners and Harmony 's and Gallos and who- knows-what (feel free to add to the list ? ). Today's Epi and other lower end guitars are great compared to those....!
Fortunately the decent amps (Vox and Fender and Marshall) available at the time compensated somewhat.. ?

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