MIDIguitar/Guitarsynth

AlanRatcliffe · 2010-07-05T19:19:09+00:00

kayDUB wrote: Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Of course, there is another way to go about adding in synth parts without a keys player - guitar synth. But that's anothe...

MIDIguitar/Guitarsynth

AlanRatcliffe

kayDUB wrote: Open it! Open it! maybe another thread? :-[

Made it an article:
http://articles.guitarforum.co.za/articles/midiguitar-1-fleshing-out-your-sound
I'll follow up with a few more MIDI guitar articles over the next few weeks.

guitarboy2828

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
kayDUB wrote: Open it! Open it! maybe another thread? :-[
Made it an article:
http://articles.guitarforum.co.za/articles/midiguitar-1-fleshing-out-your-sound
I'll follow up with a few more MIDI guitar articles over the next few weeks.

Wow, that's awesome.. Now you have me GASing for one of these guys! ?

PeteM

Okay Alan you've convinced me to go this route for live work as well as some studio work - the flexibility is enormous. Can you give us some info on the gear required, hardware and software, and their application?
However, I still need to investigate keyboard synth for more precise arrangements in studio work.

DonovanB

PeteM, I must pay you a visit sometime with my Roland GR20 and let you play with it for a while. I found it much easier than a keyboard because I can't play keys at all.

Along this note, one of the songs I play needs strings. Mainly one cello, and one violin. We know a cellist and are going to invite him to sit in on the big gigs with us. Now we just need to find a violinist. The thing is we want to use students because our parts aren't very technical and they require only one of each instrument.

I can use the synth on the guitar but it will be very tough to play the guitar part, the cello part and the violin part all at once. I suppose I could try, the pedals allow for splitting of the signals and I can send the synth to the PA, and the guitar to my amp.

AlanRatcliffe

PeteM wrote: Okay Alan you've convinced me to go this route for live work as well as some studio work - the flexibility is enormous. Can you give us some info on the gear required, hardware and software, and their application?
However, I still need to investigate keyboard synth for more precise arrangements in studio work.

I'll try get article two up today. In the meantime, I've got some old notes from a workshop I hosted here:
http://ratcliffe.co.za/articles/midiguitar.shtml

Basically, you need a hex pickup for the guitar, a guitar-MIDI converter box and a synth (or ten :-[). I currently use the Graph Tech Ghost system (hex pickup system), a Roland GI-20 (Guitar-MIDI converter) and a whole slew of softsynths (mostly Native Instruments & Edirol).

Some of the Roland units (GR-30, GR-33, GR20, are guitar synths, which house both the converter and synth in one box. A bit limiting (particularly the GR-20), but more gig ready. The best converter on the market is the Terratech Axon - particularly if you play with a plectrum.

There are limitations to any system, notably an audible delay which increases as you go lower in pitch. There are ways around this, depending on what you are doing. I like using the slower pad sounds and using the guitar sound as the percussive part of the whole, which gives the illusion of instant tracking. If you don't need the guitar sound mixed in, you can High tune or Nashville tune your guitar (lower three or four strings respectively tuned an octave higher) for faster tracking, then shift the MIDI output of those strings down an octave.

FruitarGeek

This all sounds very expensive ☹

AlanRatcliffe

The GR-20 comes with the GK-3 hex pickup and has sounds onboard. Retail of R7995. There's one on Bidorbuy now for R4.5K:
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/22982339/Roland_GR_20_Perfect_condition_Barely_used.html

The GR-20 is a bit limiting in some respects, but it's a perfect introduction to the technology. Damn simple to use too - when I first got into this stuff, you had to know lots of MIDI stuff like controller numbers, MSBs, LSBs, Hex code and all sorts of geeky arcane knowledge. These days it's simpler than most multieffects pedals.

arjunmenon

Strangely this is something i've been looking into for the past 3 weeks because i can't seem to find a band to play in and the thought of playing unison sax+guitar lines gives me gooseflesh ? . As of now i'm still not certain if:

1. Installing the GK3 p/up is the way to go? (Would i have bigger tracking issues on a FR equipped guitar?)
2. Installing the Graphtec ghost piezo FR and the hexaphonic kit is the best way to go?
3. Getting a midi-ready guitar might be the best idea?

I was pretty set on getting the GR-20 but after watching Burr Johnson's demo of the Terratec Axon (not sure if its the AX50USB or the AX100MK2), i am not so sure anymore.

Help!

DonovanB

I got my GR20 for R6k last year. It is easy to use, I have also since been able to rig it to my PC and operate Reason instruments with it. Which means I can get some pretty crazy sounds in unison with my guitar.

I'm not too clued up on the other MIDI sets so I can't comment but the Roland unit is the same as the Roland keyboards so you get the same sounds out of that. Some are awesome and some are pitiful. But you can choose not to use them obviously...

guitarboy2828

What are synth pedals like? http://proguitarshop.com/store/effects-synthesizer-pedals-c-14

Can they achieve some of the sounds you had in your vid's Alan? What is the benefit of the roland style one? because these pedals are a little cheaper!

AlanRatcliffe

Arjun Menon wrote: As of now i'm still not certain if:

Graphtech and Axon. Especially with a FR, which generates a lot of pitch bend data. Axon has a higher throughput.

guitarboy2828 wrote: What are synth pedals like? http://proguitarshop.com/store/effects-synthesizer-pedals-c-14

Not real synths, usually just fuzz distortion with filters and ring modulators that simulate analog subtractive synthesis (basically the same as the early '80s Roland GR-300, but monophonic).

Can they achieve some of the sounds you had in your vid's Alan? What is the benefit of the roland style one?

No, not the same. the MIDI Roland/Terratec systems let you access the sounds of any synth that includes MIDI (most of them) - particularly handy for realistic sample-based sounds or the modern complex synthesis hybrids. The advantage of the effect type "synths" is there is no tracking delay or glitching, but tonally they are primitive and you cannot get natural sounds like pianos, violins, etc.