Backtracks... how exactly do they work?

FruitarGeek · 2010-07-05T00:52:38+00:00

So I remember a while back seeing good ol Jeremy de Tolly (thinking of Jack Parrow song now) on stage, and looking at the 4 instruments, I could see each of...

Backtracks... how exactly do they work?

vic

Re. Question... done live above....I found this version which I believe was the one which charted worldwide. As far as I can hear all the essentials are in both versions...strings, brass, choir, etc. I believe this song relies on the orchestral parts, especially the brass exclamation parts. The strings are neatly doing the secondary melody and filling the ether so to speak in both versions. The essential bass line is present in both versions as well.

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote: However I think a case is being made here that in some cases orchestras or synths or massed vocals or some effect or other can be not just production gloss but can be integral to the composition.

Exactly! Carmina Burana anyone? Ever see Victor Borge do his piano solo version of Beeethovens Third? Not quite as the composer intended. ?

Bob-Dubery

vic wrote: Re. Question... done live above....I found this version which I believe was the one which charted worldwide. As far as I can hear all the essentials are in both versions...strings, brass, choir, etc. I believe this song relies on the orchestral parts, especially the brass exclamation parts. The strings are neatly doing the secondary melody and filling the ether so to speak in both versions. The essential bass line is present in both versions as well.

OK... I've never actually listened to the album, and it's possible that they had an unplugged version for Top Of The Pops (though I recall the brass now you mention it).

The initial arc of my journey through music went folk, blues, a brief dalliance with Steely Dan and Little Feat, then punk/new wave.

I mean one just could NOT listen to a Moody Blues album. Just couldn't. Unthinkable. Totally non-u. One would have exactly zero street credibility if word got out.

Though somehow I managed to keep my admiration for Abba hidden (and suspect that many others did the same).

vic

I'm no MB nor ABBA fan myself and have none of these in my humble collection.....although, in both cases, they have produced some VERY good material in their time.
Re. Question... when I first heard it way back, I was struck by the huge orchestration which was, somewhat unusual, for those times.

Bob-Dubery

vic wrote: I'm no MB nor ABBA fan myself and have none of these in my humble collection.....although, in both cases, they have produced some VERY good material in their time.
Re. Question... when I first heard it way back, I was struck by the huge orchestration which was, somewhat unusual, for those times.

Not really. Anything went in the 60s and often did. The Beatles had already topped the chart with a song with that had only vocals and an orchestra - no "band" at all.

In his book "White Bicycles" Joe Boyd talks about his search for a string arranger to work on the first Nick Drake album. He didn't end up with that many options but there were certainly multiple professional orchestral arrangers operating in 60s London and that says that artists were using orchestras on their recordings.

(One option available to Boyd that surprised me was one Harry Robinson, better known as "Lord Rockingham". Robinson eventually did the arrangement for Drake's "River Man".)

Bob-Dubery

vic wrote: I'm no MB nor ABBA fan myself and have none of these in my humble collection.....although, in both cases, they have produced some VERY good material in their time.
Re. Question... when I first heard it way back, I was struck by the huge orchestration which was, somewhat unusual, for those times.

Abba are an interesting case here. They did go on the road and they had to take along a very large number of musicians in order to reproduce their singles.

vic

X-rated Bob wrote:
vic wrote: I'm no MB nor ABBA fan myself and have none of these in my humble collection.....although, in both cases, they have produced some VERY good material in their time.
Re. Question... when I first heard it way back, I was struck by the huge orchestration which was, somewhat unusual, for those times.
Not really. Anything went in the 60s and often did. The Beatles had already topped the chart with a song with that had only vocals and an orchestra - no "band" at all.

In his book "White Bicycles" Joe Boyd talks about his search for a string arranger to work on the first Nick Drake album. He didn't end up with that many options but there were certainly multiple professional orchestral arrangers operating in 60s London and that says that artists were using orchestras on their recordings.

(One option available to Boyd that surprised me was one Harry Robinson, better known as "Lord Rockingham". Robinson eventually did the arrangement for Drake's "River Man".)

Oh yes sure...Norrie Paramor's beautiful orchestral arrangements on MANY pop recordings come to mind. Another BIG orchestration in 1968/9 can be heard on Barry Ryan's big hit Eloise. Even the Stones had strings on Ruby Tuesday ?

bloukie

Morning guys,

Maybe I'm too late to contribute to the debate/discussion (sorry - I'm like that....) but not too late to revive it and possibly send it in a different direction?

I would love to get some opinions, particularly from the purists, on the use of a loop station by a solo artist in a live setting where tracks are created live on the fly.

Also a capitol crime? :-\

[deleted]

I've always liked that, but I've seen it turn on people, so I guess you need to be very sure of what you're doing.

Warren

bloukie wrote:
I would love to get some opinions, particularly from the purists, on the use of a loop station by a solo artist in a live setting where tracks are created live on the fly.

Also a capitol crime? :-\

I think that's a very different kettle of fish, since you're still playing the music live. In fact, it's even tougher since you need your recorded loop to be as precise as possible because it will underpin the following loops. Any bum notes are going to be repeated throughout the rest of your song ? Very different to using pre-recorded stuff.

bloukie

Thanks Vicky and Warren,

I can assure you that getting the timing of that first loop spot-on without quantizing takes more than a little bit of practise. But hey, its a lot of fun!

I'm dropping my acoustic an octave down via my Boss OC-2 Laney and then putting the signal through my Laney Acoustic amp before it reaches the Boss 20 XL loop station, thus creating a deep almost upright bass sound. I then layer either a sparce acoustic guitar (more difficult to get that right than what you'd think!) and playing Strat over that or doing it the other way round.

Apart from giving the space to solo, a looper can teach you so-o-o-o much about song construction.

[deleted]

Sounds like you're pretty creative with it, which is where a lot of people get stuck (in a loop, ha ha).