NorioDS
Specifically, I don't understand ANY of the EQ stuff under "EQ" and "Parametric EQ". What the heck's the difference? ???
And how do you use it to get better sounds out of your guitar / recordings / etc?
Oh and what's all this "Wet/Dry" stuff? A wild stab leads me to thinking that it relates to how much you want to mix in the effect. Dry is a little and wet is a lot? :-[
There's a LOT of terminology in the recording / "advanced effects" world that elude simple guitarists like me who are used to tone, volume, gain and distortion knobs ?
Help! ☹
FatBoy
Thanks for posting this, I have no idea either! Will follow this thread closely!
Manfred-Klose
OK here goes:
Parametric EQ is works like the knobs you get on a mixer, low mid high and Q control.
Graphic EQ is the one that looks like a wave(In the pic, left in the corner)
Wet - The origanl signal with effects(reverb,chorus)
Dry - The origanl signal with no effects
One can balance between wet and dry to get the effect your looking for.
The best way to learn eq, is to play around with it and see what it does.
For guitar eq, try to take a bit of mids away, to make it more soothing to the ear.
Let me know that helps, if not, i'll post some more info.
AlanRatcliffe
I thought I had written an article on EQ, but I don't seem to have. Huge subject, but quickly (and with some fudging to make the concepts a bit easier to understand - so no smartass comments from those in the know):
EQs are basically filters which separate the frequency spectrum into different ranges then boost or cut those frequencies. There are a few types of filter:
Shelving - which affects all frequencies above or below the cutoff frequency. There are two types of shelving filters: highpass and lowpass . A highpass shelving filter affects all the frequencies below the cutoff frequency (and "pass" the frequencies which are above - hence the name), while a lowpass filter affects all the frequencies above the cutoff, leaving those below untouched.
Then you get a bandpass filter, which affects a relatively narrow band of frequencies, leaving those on either side untouched. The "width" of the frequencies affected is referred to as the Q.
Now, your types of EQ are all based on those three
Shelving EQs - better known as the simple "treble" (lowpass) and "bass" (highpass) controls you know and love.
Graphic EQs - a number of narrow Q bandpass filters together
Bandpass EQs are used for midrange controls.
A parametric EQ is a special bandpass EQ which are tunable, having adjustable frequency and often an adjustable Q. Very handy for zeroing in on a small band of frequencies (like those causing feedback in a mic) to boost or cut them. Interestingly enough, a Wah pedal is a parametric EQ with a boost - the rocker pedal changes the frequency
Using EQ is a topic that can fill a book (and has), but basically for recording you use it to give instruments their own space in the mix, by cutting out frequencies that clash with other instruments. You need to figure out which frequencies are essential to the instrument (like the low end of a bass) and clear "space" in the mix by filtering out some of those frequencies from the other instruments and likewise, filter some of the other instrument's frequencies out of the bass.
Note that it is always better to cut frequencies than to boost them. Boosting is fine in small doses, but if you are boosting more than 3dB on an instrument, the chances are you should rather be cutting those frequencies from something else, rather than boosting on that instrument.
Also, the closer to no adjustment you can get, the better - EQs are more accurate with minimal changes. So if it takes a 6dB boost or cut in a frequency range to make an instrument heard, it's better to share the EQing by boosting one instrument only 3dB, but cut 3dB somewhere else to make the space.
If you set a graphic EQ properly, the "curve" on the controls should be centred around the centre line. If everything is boosted or everything is cut, you should rather centre around the line and make a level change to compensate.
To use a parametric to find the frequencies you need to cut, there's a simple trick: set the Q midway and then boost by 6 -12 dB. Then sweep the frequency control until the nasties jump out at you ( ? ). Congratulations, you have just found the ugly frequencies. Now just cut them a few dB to get rid of them and adjust the Q so that it gets only the nasty frequency and leaves the good ones around it. To kill feedback with a parametric, set a big level cut and the Q in the middle and sweep the frequency until the feedback goes away. Now narrow the Q until you have the narrowest band that works to kill the feedback, reduce the cut if possible to keep the sound as natural as possible.
I was taught to use graph paper - figure out the frequencies in each track (using spectrum analysers at first, but you get the hang of it eventually and train your ear) and mark them all down on the graph paper so you can easily see which instruments are interfering with others and figure out where to start looking for problem areas. I don't bother with that anymore, but it's a pretty foolproof way of doing it.
NorioDS
Holy crap! OK I'm gonna sit on this one until I understand it. Methinks I has a steep learning curve ahead.
NorioDS
Oh crap, forgot to say thanks ? Thanks dudes! Will try and understand all of that. Hopefully my subconscious will just absorb it tonight and I can use it tomorrow. ?
Manfred-Klose
Just remember to have fun doing it!!! thats the best way of learning.
AlanRatcliffe
If you set a graphic EQ properly, the "curve" on the controls should be centred around the centre line. If everything is boosted or everything is cut, you should rather centre around the line and make a level change to compensate.
I also cover this in my
Gainstaging effects article - with pretty picture too.
FatBoy
Eish, I will try to get that in my head, thanks for the info!
Last time I played with an EQ in Reaper it was like this graph line thing with some node points and I just pulled them around till it sounded cool hahaha, now maybe I'll try that again with a printout of this thread.
majestikc
The way I look at "eq" is it's just volume control for all the frequency bands, such as the note "A" is 440hz etc etc, so by moving the slider of a certain frequency up or down on a "graphic eq" all you're really doing is turning the volume up or down for that selected frequency (you'll notice the sliders move up or down in db).
The difference between graphic eq and parametric eq is absolutely nothing, parametric eq just allows you more control of the "q" or "sharpness/accuracy" of how the surrounding frequencies are being affected, meaning: when you slide a "slider" up on that 440hz slider in a graphic eq, you have no idea of just how much it is pulling the 400hz and 480hz frequencies up as well (this is predetermined by the manufacturer/programmer of the plugin or unit) and you have no control over it either, but with a parametric eq you can adjust the "q" setting so that when you move that frequency up it affects the surrounding frequencies as little, or as much, as you want (or as much as the plugin will allow).A parametric eq allows you to be as general or as surgical as you need to be, a tight sharp "spike" or a round fat bump etc.
The note "A" on a guitar is exactly the same as on a piano, what makes a piano "sound" different to a guitar is the harmonic overtones that occur due to the materials and construction of the instrument, in other words the main not "A" is exactly the same 440hz on each, but on a guitar the "A" is followed by say, a "G# - D - B" and on a piano that "A" is followed by a "D# - F - G - C" and it's those overtones which give the instruments there different "sounds" or "timbres".
Now, all those notes, like the "A" are all specific "FREQUENCIES", so by learning what frequency is what (not as hard as you think, 220hz is "A", 440hz is "A", 880hz is "A", 1760hz is "A", it just doubles every octave so there's really only twelve main frequencies to try remember),you can get an idea of what to boost and cut.
If you know what overtones to boost on your acoustic guitar recording for example, you can bring out that sound more in the mix, to me you can't really "change" the sound however, it's not like if you've recorded a crappy sounding acoustic guitar you can all of a sudden make it sound amazing with some magical eq settings.
All sound is frequency, so if you had annoying fret noises on your recording you could locate what frequency the noise is, and turn the volume down on it (parametric is useful for this because you can grab that little dot and move it around until you "locate" that annoying noise etc, whereas with a graphic eq you'd need to know sort of where it is to begin with).
There are really only 3 ways to manipulate sound, "VOLUME" "DELAY" "MODULATION"
Volume: is obviously the volume level itself, panning (turning down the volume more in the right speaker so that the sound "appears" to be more in the left one), compressor, gating, expanders , limiters are all just volume control, and eq'ing is just turning the volume up or down on selected frequencies.
Delay: is just time manipulation, delay,echo,reverb etc are all the same thing,and you could use a good delay plugin to get an echo or reverb sound and vice versa.
Modulation: phasers, flangers, chorus are all just manipulating the frequencies of the sound (grab a parametric eq "dot" and swirl it around while the music is playing through it and you'll hear a "phasing/flange" sound depending on how crazy you get with it).
Understanding the fundamentals of those three things will take ALOT of the mystery and elusiveness out of recording and mixing.There's obviously more to it than that, but it's a good place to start.
And ALWAYS remember :..........."You cannot polish a turd"
Get as good a sound going in as you can, then use eq,compressors,reverbs etc to create a good MIX, not a good guitar sound, if you try getting good individual sounds after they have been recorded by using extreme eq and effects, then the overall mix will never sound cohesive or good, even though the guitar mite sound better on it's own etc.
Renesongs
Simple but effective explanation - kudos to you sir 8)
Neps
majestikc wrote
There are really only 3 ways to manipulate sound, "VOLUME" "DELAY" "MODULATION"
Volume: is obviously the volume level itself, panning (turning down the volume more in the right speaker so that the sound "appears" to be more in the left one), compressor, gating, expanders , limiters are all just volume control, and eq'ing is just turning the volume up or down on selected frequencies.
Delay: is just time manipulation, delay,echo,reverb etc are all the same thing,and you could use a good delay plugin to get an echo or reverb sound and vice versa.
Modulation: phasers, flangers, chorus are all just manipulating the frequencies of the sound (grab a parametric eq "dot" and swirl it around while the music is playing through it and you'll hear a "phasing/flange" sound depending on how crazy you get with it
This is very cool explanation.. Of the 3 diffrent 'effects'. As soon as you grasp the idea with EQ's and Compressors you can then also start 'keying' the compressor from channels and let them only be activated with certain Hz's.
Side chains (keying) is a very usefull tool, and me thinks that I'd have to write about that effect.. It's the way pro's get Bass and kick to sit together in a mix.. Also to fatten up a kick by using a tone of 50-60Hz to add alot of low end to your kick drum..
C-LYDE
... and for the interesting part - the advent of dsp filters actually takes filtering beyond the realm of typical discussion e.g. what is difference between an IIR and FIR filter and can one hear it? 8)
If anyone is interested I could get into the techy stuff - but it may be over top for many... be warned ?
AlanRatcliffe
If anyone is interested
Always... ?
Neps
C.LYDE i can see we are going to get along realy well. Techie is the way to go!!
C-LYDE
A slight detour - but I did this experiment quite recently and I thought I'd share some of my suspicions about tone and amps.
I passed a swept frequency (about 10sec going from 16Hz to 22kHz) through my Fender Princeton 112 pre-amp. I wanted to finger print the behavior of the EQ circuit.
What I noticed was 2 distinctive humps representing Bass and Treble - these remain even if both dials are set at mid-point (5). Changing the dial (1->10) simply increases the hump level. I have not had the chance to analyze the affected frequency range. This typical of guitar amp circuits - NOT 'flat' 0dB type response. Definitely the reasons why my amp sounds the way it does (before even getting into the speaker influence).
Now what has this got to do with EQ - well honestly, everything...
How do we approach changing levels of bass, mid's and treble if we have no idea what we are starting off with? Now some might say use your ears... eh that works...sometimes. (audiometry is another discussion worth having)
For example: the strat sound is not cutting through the way i like it, it appears to clashing with the strings and vocals. What do I do?
Grab the channel EQ, change the chord position, change the guitar/pickup or drop it/strings/vocals from the mix?
Thoughts?
Gearhead
Not to answer all your questions - the 'standard' Fender 3-way EQ does NOT have a flat frequency response with all the knobs set to the middle position. To see how it works in practice, you can download a nice EQ simulator from Duncanamps.com.
Tube amp guru and Mesa Boogie owner Randall Smith says that they put the same kind of EQ on new amps like Fender did, because to his knowledge there has not been a succesful amp design that did not have it - drawbacks about overlapping frequencies and all. In other words, we should not complain about EQ that we seem to like so much.
NorioDS
Wow, Majestik, great explanation. I understand a lot more now. I love it when people can simplify stuff into something bite-sized and easy to grasp. Makes it much easier to move into more advanced territory later on ?
dyllels
learning a lot from this thread ?
thanks guys!
time to try out some recording to test this stuff out ?
Neps
C.LYDE interesting idea you poinet out regarding the clashing of instruments in a mix. Cause at the end of the day there are quite a lot going on in a mix. Even some of the 'emptiest' mixes around have quite a bit going on in them.
your idea about changing the chord structure or EQ is quite a good point. My first thing to try and get right when I've got a feeling that the instruments are going to clash is trying a diffrent micing technique. It's not always possible when you're on a budget to try and experiment, but if you have an engineer who knows what he is doing you can get most of those problems sorted out at the recording stage.. mic placement, diffrent kinds of mics, nd even in some cases using the bleed on other mics.
Quite a while ago I read about a bloke who recorded a full album with one mic, everything at once with NO overdubs.. All he did was use quite a good Omni mic, and placed the instruments in the room relative to where he wanted them to sound in the mix.. I havnt listend to how it sounds, but I'm on the lookout for the album.. Very interesting idea to get everything to sound good at the source.
On the Fender amp and Strat thing.. I've always had problems with Fender amps sounding TOO bright and then actualy kiling my mix, thus Ive resorted to using VOX's for most part. But then a mate of mine showed me a trick he used.. Cause all amps have an inbuilt EQ, even before you get to the tne knobs. If th amp sounds too bright, he placed a blanket over the speaker, and then mic'ed from there. And vice verca, if the amp was quite dull, and the tone knobs didnt realy work well, he placed a piece of wood at a 30digree angle to the speaker on the ground and then placed the mic inbetween that crude setup.. The bouncing of the freq's from the floor caused a slight delay effect but also for some reason brightend up the sound.
