THAT tone

Aldertguitarist

Ok, so I sold my GT-8 last week, and started on single stompboxes. Now I can't get that same saturated (is that the word?) or high gain sustained tone that i would be able to have gotten with the GT-8. Currently, concerning distortion, what I've got is a Digitech Distortion Factory (DF-7), Sans amp Tri- Ac, and the amp I'm using is a Laney Lionheart 4 x 10 20 W (Valve). I'm looking for that BIG Petrucci kind-of sound. (Notice the 'kind-of', not his exact tone)

Any ideas or pedals to check out?

Thanks ?

ezietsman

You're going to need some delay on that, sir...

Vick

And you can't disgrace a wonderful amp like that with a distortion factory...
Get a vox statunater(don't know how that's spelt...) There's one on gumtree going for like 750...

BMU

Is that amp on a clean setting? If so, you went from a device that simulates Mesa-type tube preamp gain really well (GT-8 with the COSM modeling or whatever it is) to a clean amp with stompboxes, and the stompboxes don't do that imitation nearly as well... unless that digitech is a tube simulator too. (The Sansamp doesn't count imho, haven't used mine since Line 6 brought out real-sounding tube saturation what, 10 years ago or more.)

Still, shouldn't be too hard. Just need enough gain.

(I don't think it has anything to do with delay btw. He's talking about the bigness of the distortion saturation.)

Aldertguitarist

Vick wrote: And you can't disgrace a wonderful amp like that with a distortion factory...
Get a vox statunater(don't know how that's spelt...) There's one on gumtree going for like 750...

I must say I like the df 7 just for thr RAT and the DOD modelings, got quite nice crunchy sounds, but this is still not what I'm looking for.

Thanks, I'll check out gumtree for the vox!

Aldertguitarist

BMU wrote: Is that amp on a clean setting? If so, you went from a device that simulates Mesa-type tube preamp gain really well (GT-8 with the COSM modeling or whatever it is) to a clean amp with stompboxes, and the stompboxes don't do that imitation nearly as well... unless that digitech is a tube simulator too. (The Sansamp doesn't count imho, haven't used mine since Line 6 brought out real-sounding tube saturation what, 10 years ago or more.)

Still, shouldn't be too hard. Just need enough gain.

(I don't think it has anything to do with delay btw. He's talking about the bigness of the distortion saturation.)

Yeah, I first had it on clean, but then added a tiny bit of the amp's drive, and got some nice dirty tones, but alas, not yet what I'm looking for. What do you mean that 'The Sansamp doesn't count imho' (honest opinion) ?

Does any1 have experience with the Hughes & Kettner Valve preamp? I'm not sure of the exact name of it.

Thanks!

DonovanB

Aldertguitarist wrote: Ok, so I sold my GT-8 last week,

There's your problem right there....

the more I read this forum, and the more people talk about, what combination of expensive stomp-boxes plus patch cables plus power supply plus pedal board can get me <insert what I can probably do with a GT6/8/10 here>

I know it's not for everyone, but the more I read that, the more I know it's definitely the gear I'm gonna stick with...

I don't want to knock the idea of singles, after all, thats what the multis are based on anyway, I'm just WAY too lazy to try get my head around the complexity of finding your sound with so few options.

BMU

Aldertguitarist wrote: What do you mean that 'The Sansamp doesn't count imho' (honest opinion) ?

Just that it's not a good amp simulator imo. Maybe for punk tones or something (I wouldn't know) but for the smooth, full saturation modern tone you're talking about (e.g. Petrucci or any modern metal) Sansamp doesn't cut it. What you're looking for is the sound of a highly overdriven modern tube pre-amp.

In general (and this doesn't help you much :-[ ), I'm with D Banks that amp modeling is the way to go. Your GT-8 probably did a much better "Mesa Dual Rectifier on 10" impression than you'll get with stompboxes and vintage amp. (If that is a vintage type amp, sounds like it is.) It probably did a perfectly usable Matchless, Twin, JCM-800 and many others too...

But back to your current situation, I'm still thinking you can get there with what you have. Try to get more distortion from the amp rather than the pedals? Nothing you didn't know already, I know. Of course then volume might become a problem... refer point re. amp modeling above! I remember playing a Boss Metal Zone through a Fender Twin and it sounded pretty cool to my ears. This was years ago though, maybe now I'll think it sounds cr*p.

Aldertguitarist

Donovan Banks wrote:
Aldertguitarist wrote: Ok, so I sold my GT-8 last week,
There's your problem right there....

the more I read this forum, and the more people talk about, what combination of expensive stomp-boxes plus patch cables plus power supply plus pedal board can get me <insert what I can probably do with a GT6/8/10 here>

I know it's not for everyone, but the more I read that, the more I know it's definitely the gear I'm gonna stick with...

I don't want to knock the idea of singles, after all, thats what the multis are based on anyway, I'm just WAY too lazy to try get my head around the complexity of finding your sound with so few options.

That's right yes. BUT for me, I'm getting more the sound that I hear on the radio (in terms of getting more session work). I don't know of many pro session guitarists that use multis. BUT again I also want that High gain sustained tone. LOL. Maybe I need to buy a GT-8 again ?

Aldertguitarist

BMU wrote:
Aldertguitarist wrote: What do you mean that 'The Sansamp doesn't count imho' (honest opinion) ?
Just that it's not a good amp simulator imo. Maybe for punk tones or something (I wouldn't know) but for the smooth, full saturation modern tone you're talking about (e.g. Petrucci or any modern metal) Sansamp doesn't cut it. What you're looking for is the sound of a highly overdriven modern tube pre-amp.

Sansamp for is really above many other pedals I've tried, in terms of nice blues/rock tones, and really warm.

[/quote]
But back to your current situation, I'm still thinking you can get there with what you have. Try to get more distortion from the amp rather than the pedals? Nothing you didn't know already, I know. Of course then volume might become a problem... refer point re. amp modeling above! I remember playing a Boss Metal Zone through a Fender Twin and it sounded pretty cool to my ears. This was years ago though, maybe now I'll think it sounds cr*p.
[/quote]

Unfortunately I live in security complex, so volume is a big no-no. That's the reason I started playing guitar - the neighbours didn't like drums. The DF-7 does have a Metal Zone modeling, and I have played a metal zone before, and I really dislike that sound lol.

The search continues... ?

BMU

Yeah I hear you re. volume. Reason I've been a POD man since they came out, love those things.

Before amp modeling started happening I tried getting the tone you're talking about with a Sansamp GT2 for direct recording. No dice, hence my comments. I can imagine it working well as a partial saturation stompbox.

Well, good luck with the tone seach. Sounds like you're going to have to buy something unfortunately.

DonovanB

Aldertguitarist wrote: That's right yes. BUT for me, I'm getting more the sound that I hear on the radio (in terms of getting more session work). I don't know of many pro session guitarists that use multis. BUT again I also want that High gain sustained tone. LOL. Maybe I need to buy a GT-8 again ?

If you are working on someone else's track, your sound may not even be considered. Sessions will be more about your playing than the sound. What you hear on the radio may not even be a guitar in some cases.

With Protools most producers will record you clean anyway. They DI the signal before your pedals and record both clean and effected/amped. Then if your amped signal strays or doesn't cut it they use the clean track and add effects after. It works a whole lot better that way IMO. one can completely ruin a track with a pedal EQ that is badly set. Rather let that stuff be done post-take, you play the right notes and let the engineer get the tone.

BMU

Is that really how it's done in most studios? 'Cos it sounds brilliant to me. The ampless guitar studio; I used to dream of this. What an awesome time to be alive & playing guitar. ?

PeteM

Donovan Banks wrote: They DI the signal before your pedals and record both clean and effected/amped. Then if your amped signal strays or doesn't cut it they use the clean track and add effects after. It works a whole lot better that way IMO. one can completely ruin a track with a pedal EQ that is badly set. Rather let that stuff be done post-take, you play the right notes and let the engineer get the tone.

Post sweetening of a clean track is one way of doing it - but in IMHO if you're looking for a distinctive sound then micing up an amp gives you a very different feel - you get the inherent sound/timbre of the amp which you cannot always get in post.

Aldertguitarist

Thanks Donovan for your comment. I have done a few sessions where guys use that method of using the DI. But most of the other ones, the guys would just mic up the amp, ask you to make a few tweaks if needed, and then record it like that. But then without things like reverb, delay, etc, that they would add in later. That's the (little) experience I've had with what the guys generally do. Alot of guys have their own ways of doing it, which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.

By the way, after MUCH work behind my DF7 and laney, I managed to get quite a heavy tone with nice sustain.

singemonkey

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AlanRatcliffe

Both ways can work well. 90% of the time I'm DIing and amping for recording. Even if I end up using the DI'd track, having an amp in the room when I track affects both how I play and the way the guitar responds and that makes the DI'd track more convincing. Even then, I'll keep the amp track simple with as few effects as possible - using just the ones integral to playing the part.

The amp track does the trick more often than not, but having a DI'd track lets me revisit the track and change amps and effects anywhere in the process right up until mixdown and that often saves my butt. I'll sometimes layer in a second (or third) amp sound using the DI.

BMU

Aldertguitarist wrote: By the way, after MUCH work behind my DF7 and laney, I managed to get quite a heavy tone with nice sustain.

Good stuff, it had to be possible.