chris77
In the April issue of Guitarist John Mayer talks about his new black-strat and how it just has that Something about it that makes it play better than the others. He goes on about how that Something cannot be explained, even by luthiers, and that it is a mystery why some guitars built to identical specs and set-up the same will not play alike and sometimes one will, for no aparent reason, just play better than the others. Now I'm not so sure of that... I totally get that wood is organic and with all the variables involved how they Sound will differ, but this shouldnt affect the Playability. The construction is science and if all the dimensions are the same the playability should be as well. I reckon its all about the setup and that any instruments can be made to play as easy or as hard as any other guitar with the same specs. But we have all heard it mentioned or said ourselves how some guitars are just Special. So what says you, truth or myth?
ezietsman
I think if you want to answer this question, you need to define what constitutes a guitar that 'plays better'. If I think about it, the first thing that comes to mind is the properties of the guitar like string tension, string elasticity, scale length (which influences the first two in opposite ways), fret height, fret smoothness, neck shape and smoothness, bridge height, guitar weight and shape and all the others I can't think of right now. So at first glance, two identical guitars with exactly the same specs should play exactly the same.
However, there are additional things that might constitute good playability like, how easily you can get pinched harmonics to ring out, sustain of open notes, sustain of fretted notes, volume of the guitar, timbre of the instrument as a whole. If it sounds better you may think its easier to play, but playability is not a prerequisite for good tone. Its in these attributes the 'magic' is found because the physical reasons for them are more difficult learn. We mostly say 'its in the wood', but we need to ask, 'what about the wood/neck joint/glue/something makes this guitar good?'
End of ramble.
Bob-Dubery
Is this strat new or new to him?
Either way, no two guitars can be identical. Even with modern CNC manufacturing there will be differences in the actual assembly and possibly some parts will be built to a tolerance. Once you have tolerances you are allowing parts to vary slightly.
With a setup, done by a human being, there is no way that even the best luthiers can do setups exactly the same all the time.
There must be small differences in pieces of wood, in the mass of the machine heads, in the windings on a pickup, in the way the screws are placed and tightened, in the thickness of the finish etc etc etc. At the end of the range at which Mayer is buying (or being given from) frets will be dressed by hand, nuts will be tuned by hand etc etc.
I saw a slogan today that caught my eye. "Big is just lots of littles put together."
chris77
He went to the Fender Custom shop in Corona and over the course of a few days he selected the wood etc. and had it built for him. He says that it sounded crap when he got it due to an earthing problem but when he got that fixed it blew him away.
Here's the part of the interview I am refering to in the first post ,when he is asked why that specific strat plays better than the others:
"But [The Black One] just struck. All of a sudden this guitar started doin' it. And as the guitar started to age it got different; within months it started to sound different. So it was a labour of love and it's all of the Continuum record.
It's in a couple places on Battle Studies, but it really is the Continuum guitar – you know, it's just fucking great every time; it's the best feeling guitar I've ever played."
Could you say why?
"Y'know, I still can't get a guitar manufacturer to explain to me why two guitars that are made in exactly the same way, why one of the guitars has more [string tension] slack than the other.
"They will tell you like, No, the scale length is exactly the same. So why are these strings tighter? You know what I mean? And why do these ones go loosey goosey and all buttery?
"But this one is the same guitar, and you're telling me it's the same specs, and I can't get the strings to have a swish to 'em, y'know? Who knows what it is? The infinitesimally small differences in tolerances of measurement between one guitar and the other?
"But that one [The Black One] just has a little extra slack; like a little leeway. Some guitars you'll put 0.011s on, and it's like [makes abrupt noise] and you just can't move around."
singemonkey
It's a big mistake to listen to a word John Mayer says. Just let him play guitar. He's good at that. He opens his mouth and you need to call a bio-hazard team.
... Electric Guitar Fact.
Bob-Dubery
chris77 wrote:
He went to the Fender Custom shop in Corona and over the course of a few days he selected the wood etc. and had it built for him.
There you go. Hand built, not off a production line. And he can do things like "I want the pickups from the Eric Johnson strat, with 10 turns taken off, plus the neck from the Beck signature" blah blah blah. No way is he getting the strat that you can go into a shop and buy.
His point about string tension is interesting to me, but I wonder if it's all to do with scale length when you're playing that kind of instrument. Different string trees, different set ups on the tremolo... sure they have to have the strings at the same tension to get them tuned to the same note, but it seems to me that he's talking not just about tension but how the guitar feels and how the strings behave after you've hit them.
I also think that these top players are dealing in differences that most of us can't perceive.
And the human mind is a funny thing. I've read several stories over the years that have F1 mechanics pretending to adjust things until the driver decides that the current setting is just right. Or whichever World Champion it is complains that this set of tyres (theoretically the same as all the other sets) is crap. So they change to another identical set and he says "OK... these are better but not quite there, got any more for me to try?". So they put the first (crap) set on again and he says "ah... these are perfect. Why didn't you put these on in the first place?"
Keira-WitherKay
yeah i do think building guitars is a "black art " where some just do have some magic not found in others...........
and the string tension thing is also huge for me............ and a slightly different scale length will also alter the tension . and different tension will make a guitar feel ultra playable or a "battle" to play
no one can in my mind build the perfect guitar and give it to a player.....i believe a player should try a collection of guitars already built and find the "gem" the one that speaks to the player
Jack-Flash-Jr
Keira WitherKay wrote:
yeah i do think building guitars is a "black art " where some just do have some magic not found in others...........
+1
Some just got it. That's all one can say. Why on earth would I prefer my AXS32 to a 30k Les Paul or Strat or other Eye-gouger or another AXS32? (And the awesome truth is, I do!) There's an instant bond despite the shitty always out of tune G string.
AlanRatcliffe
Some guitars are better than others. Some luthiers are famous for their ability to pick wood that will sound a certain way (Scott Lentz, John Suhr), some for their ability to change other variables to get a particular voice (Benedetto, Lentz). Still, regardless of how good the luthier there is always a little tolerance in everything from hardware to setup, and this is especially true wherever wood is concerned.
There is also the influence that a great sounding guitar can have on your playing - if it responds well to the way you play, it inspires you to play better. Bends and runs can seem easier. An experiment: Take an electric guitar and delay the sound coming out of it by a few milliseconds - In blindfold tests most players will report that the guitar is physically harder to play than the same guitar when not delayed.
singemonkey
Ok, to try and not be a smartass for ten seconds, I fully think that there are massive differences between "identical" guitars if they are made of wood. Wood is not made with strict quality control. Those damn trees do whatever the heck they like.
The upshot, I believe, is that some peculiar characteristic of a slice 'o lumber can make it tonally superior to another of exactly the same grade, fashioned into the same guitar. I saw a guy on youtube (clearly impeccable science, ne? ?) who said that the way to choose a VOS Les Paul was to play ten to twenty. Feel for the one with the best acoustic sound - the greatest resonance that vibrates right up and down the guitar with every chord. The '56 reissue he chose is certainly a peach - ridiculously loud and resonant through a microphone.
He said playing original '50s goldtops in the stores in London, that some of them were pretty good, but none as resonant as the reissue he chose. This struck a chord with me ( ?). Cos there's that vid in which Larry Dimarzio's '59 LP totally smokes an historic reissue. But he said that he chose that guitar from 5 '59 LPs. Now there was more variety then, than in the historic reissues, but I suspect that the important point is some statistically anomalous quality of the particular cut of timber. That's what gives it the timbre (oh gosh, I'm on fire! ?)
I think that with electrics the tonal characteristics of the wood are critical to that layer of complexity that underlies what the electronics and hardware are doing.
Best case scenario, I think: Take a guitar that you like in a quality tonewood - cos a good Squier might only ever sound as good as a bad Strat (debatable). Play a fair sample under near identical conditions. Pick the most resonant one.
But I think Mayer's case may just be one of bias. He had the guitar custom ordered. He also loves to brag and brag. I think that one's emotional attachment to an instrument can easily be more important to one's perception of its quality than any objective characteristics. If you also have whatever mental illness John Mayer has, you have a recipe for a very subjective opinion.
DonovanB
singemonkey wrote:
It's a big mistake to listen to a word John Mayer says. Just let him play guitar. He's good at that. He opens his mouth and you need to call a bio-hazard team.
... Electric Guitar Fact.
I fully agree. Let him say what he wants in his songs. Otherwise he should have a duct tape moustache
chris77
Ja, I also reckon its more in the head than the hands. But some guitars really just do feel right for no apparent reason, so I dont know. My squier actually plays better than my mia fender, but they aren't specced the same. The squier is lighter and the neck thinner, which I enjoy because I tend to play with my thumb over the top a lot. So its more a case of feeling better to me rather than just feeling better in general. So which one do I play more? The mia for some reason. Go figure.
bENDER
It is hard to tell because there are so many variables in this scenario. As mentioned if the human factor is involved there will always be variance....THAT MAKES IT JUST SOOOO MUCH COOLER! YHAAAAA!
If you get down to the "Needy Greedy" it's all about what you like and what you want to hear.
Not one of us is exactly the same....maby John Mayer's fingerprint patern and the way the strings are wound make his guitar sound better to him.... ???
