Ed Roman - Luthier & Forward Thinking Gibson Hater

Malkav

Hey guys I found this dude out on the net while I was bored, now I know this is a website and should therefore be under sites however his website offers such a wealth of information on guitar construction and various aspects of Modding and custom building that I wanted the more Tech minded guys to check it out.

Also he addresses a lot of the major short comings in the guitar market and how to avoid them, gives insider notes on brands and their false images (PRS) and debuncs many myths related to guitar construction (22 fret sweet spot). Anyway I hope some people log on and check out his articles.

The lame thing about his site is that a lot of the articles are to show how good his guitars are, and yes they look fabulous and well built but as one of the ADHD Shredder lot I think the shred models are kinda ugly (people always fall short in the headstock shape deparment).

The website is http://www.edroman.com and the articles are in http://www.edroman.com/techarticles.htm.

Hope you guys enjoy the read as much as I did!

[deleted]

The out of business, most hated man in the USA?

Some of his articles make sense.. but you have to take Ed Roman with a pinch of salt.

AlanRatcliffe

He's been covered in detail before. He occasionally gets it right, but should always be taken with a pillar of salt. He's a proven conman and ripoff artist who changes his mind and slants his articles depending on who is refusing to supply him with stock. He used to be a huge promoter of PRS - until PRS caught him building and selling fakes and cut him off. Then he does a 180 and PRS are the most overpriced rubbish on the market according to him.

Just Google the guy - you will find many more horror stories and more hate over him than anyone else in the industry. He went bust a year or two ago.

dee

He does not seem to be too popular on some of the other forums such as MyLesPaul, but that's kinda obvious... ?

Malkav

oh, okay cool well that I didn't know ?

However his articles on PRS being overpriced and advertising that they're handmade and not really being is quite compelling. Also if you look at the articles he doesn't claim to hate PRS so much as he claimes that all the changes they've made since about mid 90's have really just put them back by years.

I heavily agree with the things he says in relation to Gibson and their quality control and lack of innovation, and I like the argument he makes against 22 fret guitars ? I completely disagree with his preference of Seymour Duncan to Dimarzio but that's more a taste thing I guess...

The fact that he went bust probably has a lot to do with his Adamantium frets cause I seriously think those are silly, though a lot of the things he's said I know are primarily correct as they do correlate with a lot of other things I've read ?

I kinda admire him though because even if he is the most hated man in the USA he did bitch and moan publicly about a lot of things that should get bitched and moaned about ?

MikeM

Yep. Don't trust that guy nothing. Prsi (plural) are actually pretty cool considering. I've heard that they're really well made guitars and I've played a bunch of really good ones.

[deleted]

Chad Adam Browne wrote: However his articles on PRS being overpriced and advertising that they're handmade and not really being is quite compelling. Also if you look at the articles he doesn't claim to hate PRS so much as he claimes that all the changes they've made since about mid 90's have really just put them back by years.

PRS have a full factory tour on youtube, they dont really claim to be handmade... I've never seen that myself, but Yeah they use CNC, they use spray booths, etc etc, so what.. I have never personally played a bad PRS... So maybe he was just unlucky ?

Malkav

I've worked at a Guitar store for about 5 years and I have to agree with the Roman dude, their 24 fret models are far superior to their 22 frets IMO! and their earlier models definitly felt nicer, they had more of a broken in feel, the new models feel a bit stiff off the shelf. Still they're way overpriced in S.A and honestly I think they're kinda overpriced all over the world really, but then again what do I know I mean I play Japanese guitars and they can't possibly compare to American guitars (what with their fat fingers being so good at all the intricate work) ?

MikeM

Wow. What a freaking load of crap.

http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/22vs24.htm

Read that article as I was curious if there was anything worthwhile.

Factoid 1: A typical Les Paul will always sound muddy when you play chords !!!!!

Factoid 2: A Typical Les Paul is NEVER capable of sounding like a Strat or a Tele. !!!!!

Factoid 3: PRS broke that barrier in 1984 with the introduction of their 24 Fret, 25" Scale handcrafted guitar,

Factoid 4: PRS further improved on it in 1989 with the introduction of the Classic 24.

Factoid 5: PRS redesigned the Classic 24 in 1995 and basically destroyed the best guitar ever made to date.

Factoid 6: I don't think they will ever bring that one back. So I designed the Quicksilver a guitar that was built based on many of the influences of the now defunct Classic 24.

Wow. Just... Wow.

The neck angle is better on the PRS models with 24 frets than with 22, the string tension is slinkier and the overall playability is far better.
24 frets is the wave of the future, 22 frets is the older way. All the new cool guitars have 24 frets. Gibson has finally jumped on the band wagon. Gibson has offered a double cutaway Les Paul with 24 frets. for under $2,000.00!!! Sadly it still uses a Rosewood fingerboard, plastic inlays, and a limited reach. They have stayed with their same old tired 24 3/4 scale.

Yes cause we all know that having 2 extra frets makes strings slinkier...

Seriously. I'm speechless.

singemonkey

Chad Adam Browne wrote: Still they're way overpriced in S.A and honestly I think they're kinda overpriced all over the world really, but then again what do I know I mean I play Japanese guitars and they can't possibly compare to American guitars (what with their fat fingers being so good at all the intricate work) ?

Still, [insert brand name here] are way overpriced in S.A..

Malkav

Yeah he is a bit of a douchebag but he makes a lot more valid arguments than you're allowing yourself to see, 22 fret guitars are traditionally 24 3/4" to have a 24 fret means to go up to 25 1/2" normally - that makes a giant improvement on string tension ?

Also in relation to the 22 - 24 fret thing it's the pickup placement article I find most interesting as he did not do the measurement of Node points himself.

MikeM

You can have 24 frets on 24.75. And 25.5. You can have as many frets as you can fit. So again, you're tripping.

An increase in scale length produces an increase in tension. But the 24th fret node will always be where it is in relation to the strings.

Yes, most people don't like 24 fret guitars because the neck pup is not over a natural node of the strings - I mean I know of a few metal guitarists that don't even use the neck pup.

And aren't all Prsi 25"?

Malkav

I'm not tripping...I know that the Mattias Eklundh Caparison signature has a 24 3/4" scale and 27 frets, so no duh you can put any amount on you like.

As for the node the explanation given is that the node where a pickup sits in a 22 fret guitar at neck position actually cancels off overtones in the 3rd register, hence the sound you're perceiving as better is actually lacking and your mind kinda fills in the blanks, much like the neck-thru/Bolt-on argument. He's not talking about the 22 fret guitars having the neck sweet spot he's saying that the sweet spot is actually incorrectly perceived and that if you want full frequency response from an instrument go 24 fret.

Personally I love 24 fret guitars, I like that Ed Romans explanation of measured Node points ultimately says that 22 frets don't sound better and that apparently him and Seymour Duncan were present in the company of the guy who actually used physics to work out how your harmonic registers are affected by placement. Personally I don't take either side of the fence cause Ed's explanation is a bit questionable given his reputation, I just think that sweet spot thing is a myth cause it's dependant on scale length which changes wherever you're fretting which only makes it possibly apply to open chords. Besides a neck pickup on a 24 fretter still sounds like a neck pickup to me ?

Metal guitarists who don't use the neck pickup are the bane of my existence, if they even understand for a moment how many tones they could coax out of their guitars using combinations of pickup selections and fiddling with tone and volume controls they'd probably be gobsmacked. Unfortunately 80% wanna be like Alexi Laiho and therefore see no need to experiment with tones, One day they might learn that all of their aggressive riffing just sounds kinda silly without dynamics...That being said their are a lot of great Metal bands out there (Lamb of God, Meshuggah etc.) but for some strange reason South African metal guitarists always choose the players who are kinda boring, not that they can't play well or anything but they kinda all just churn out the same crap album after album (Where's the musical growth?)

and yes PRS are all 25"

MikeM

Chad Adam Browne wrote: 22 fret guitars are traditionally 24 3/4" to have a 24 fret means to go up to 25 1/2" normally - that makes a giant improvement on string tension ?

Wait what?

Oh yea. So that explains why the neck and mid pickups on a strat sound exactly the same. Oh wait no, they sound completely different.

Here's a tip. Guitarists are reluctant to change. We all want iconic tones. And if that means we have to use instruments that are incorrectly engineered, so be it. We'll always go for that guitar that gets us closer to how the great Jimmy Page sounded.

It might be technically correct but it is by no means better.

Malkav

Yeah I know all Fenders are 25 1/2 even the 22 fret models, I'm not talking about just Fender....

MikeM wrote:
Oh yea. So that explains why the neck and mid pickups on a strat sound exactly the same. Oh wait no, they sound completely different.

Being condescending isn't very nice, and yeah they sound different no duh, I don't really think you're reading what I'm writing correctly somehow...?

MikeM wrote: Here's a tip. Guitarists are reluctant to change. We all want iconic tones. And if that means we have to use instruments that are incorrectly engineered, so be it. We'll always go for that guitar that gets us closer to how the great Jimmy Page sounded.

Hardly a tip, I know guitarists are technophobic - irritates the shit out of me cause if they had half a brain to look around they'd realise the rules of the game are very different these days. I don't want Iconic tones, I want MY tones. Emulating other peoples sounds is a bit lame, in fact all the musicians I like heavily emphasize going out and finding your own style and voice, I think that your music should be individual and unique like you are. I would really not want to sound like Jimmy Page (I find him kinda sloppy really) *ducks* and I can't say I found his tones amazing either *ducks again* Now before everyone jumps to the defence of Jimmy Page remember that it's all opinion and you'd probably all hate the stuff I like, I respect him for his contribution to rock etc but that's not going to make me want to listen to him.

MikeM wrote: It might be technically correct but it is by no means better.

Speak for yourself, I've always played on and preferred 25 1/2" scale and 24 frets. In my general experience the brands that are trying to push the envelope tend to make better guitars anyway. I don't think there's anything wrong with 22 frets and shorter scales etc I just wanna punch in the face of all those people who can't see that it's entirely up to taste and insist on arguing with you about how their guitars sound better (I work with someone like this and honestly I think the reason he likes his guitar more is cause it's a R30 000 american Fender not a Japanese Ibanez - the value of which I don't know or care about cause I just love her all the same)

ezietsman

So, the way I see it, there's two things working together/against each other when discussing string tension. Lets do a thought experiment shall we?

Given the same string gauge:

Longer strings -> more tension. So the strings are harder to bend, which is the issue.

But there's also the distance away from nut/bridge:

Further away from nut/bridge -> easier to bend. Its easiest to bend the string at fret 12, we all know this. And its hard to bend it at fret 1.

So here comes the thought:

Bending a full tone on a 24 3/4" neck at fret 5 or 19 is

a. easier
b. harder

than doing the same on a 25 1/2" scale neck?

I think there'll be a sweet spot where its nearly the same. Remember, bigger scale, longer frets. I don't know the answer to this, would anyone less lazy than me care to calculate this?

AlanRatcliffe

MikeM wrote: Wow. Just... Wow.

I know! I don't usually bother ripping his articles apart, because it's usually a case of "where do I start?"

His biggest failing is he makes fundamental errors in logic - classic "all fish live in water, so everything that lives in water is a fish" syllogistic mistakes as well as starting his arguments with certain assumptions that are just plain wrong ("A typical Les Paul will always sound muddy when you play chords") or irrelevant ("A Typical Les Paul is NEVER capable of sounding like a Strat or a Tele"). His conclusions are sometimes right - i.e. there is nothing wrong with 24 frets, but how he gets there and explains that is usually a pile of pseudoscientific scatological remnants. And then he'll usually take it a step too far (i.e. 24 frets are good, so 22 frets are bad - and ironically he uses the same flawed logic and half-understanding of node points that the 24 fret detractors do).

But of course, his whole article boils things down to "the original 24 fret PRSi were great guitars, so my 24 fret copies are great too".

BTW - yes, the 24th fret falls on a node point, but ask yourself what happens when you fret at the first (or any other) fret? The node moves - EVERYWHERE along the string length is a node point for at least one note.

MikeM

Alan that's something I have thought of, but I'm guessing if you did play everything 2 frets up you'd hit that nice tone. But there's something about the 22fret neck pos, when you play on the 9th or 12th fret. Guessing it's the same as 11th or 14th but then there's a pitch change etc. Man I dunno ?

But when playing normally I still prefer the magic spot ?

Malkav

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
His biggest failing is he makes fundamental errors in logic - classic "all fish live in water, so everything that lives in water is a fish" syllogistic mistakes as well as starting his arguments with certain assumptions that are just plain wrong ("A typical Les Paul will always sound muddy when you play chords") or irrelevant ("A Typical Les Paul is NEVER capable of sounding like a Strat or a Tele"). His conclusions are sometimes right - i.e. there is nothing wrong with 24 frets, but how he gets there and explains that is usually a pile of pseudoscientific scatological remnants. And then he'll usually take it a step too far (i.e. 24 frets are good, so 22 frets are bad - and ironically he uses the same flawed logic and half-understanding of node points that the 24 fret detractors do).

Yes he's a bit of a douche bag ?

killafo

Lolzy

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/backstage/54269-ed-roman.html

Freedom of speech, its not really for everyone.