Acoustic Soundports

Attila

Guys, has anyone experimented with Soundports on their acoustic guitars? The theory/fact is that your ears are not symetrically balanced, thoese who have seen results of ear test (esp. pilots), will note that you will always have a dominant ear and certain frequencies are processed better by the left side than the right. Taking this in to consideration, I always find myself leaning over the front of acoustic guitars while playing and head facing at right angle to the sound board. in order to appreciate the sound I am making or reflecting the sound of a wall close by. So I set out to find a cure and came across certain renown Lutherier Tim Mc Knight who experimented with soundports to alleviate the above. After several email to him and much debate about location , size and shape, I took the plunge with my Charvel (steel), the results are phenomenal, there are three significant aspects, The first is : the sound opens up and fills the room and one gets a "stereo" effect - Lovely just what I wanted. The second is: I was worried that the guitar would lose tone somewhere in the range or projection. what happened the E & A string became slightly louder and so did the B & e the mids remained much the same The third is: the pitch or Helmholtz pitch remained unchanged I then went on to my Yamaha G 50 A (nylon) and got a similar result - so I am a happy puppy :D - I am interest to hear your thoughts. Regards Attila

AlanRatcliffe

It's becoming increasingly popular with the smaller custom builders (like McKnight). It doesn't make much difference to the forward projection, but cures the problem of the player not being able to hear himself in acoustic ensembles.

I've never done it myself as whenever I pick up an acoustic I have mics in front of it and headphones on.

Riaan

This is really interesting - now that you mention it, I tend to position myself the same way, or sometimes even tilt the guitar a bit. Looks like a mod that requires nerves of steel though!

Is it because of this same principle why some Ovations have multiple soundholes?

AlanRatcliffe

Riaan wrote: Looks like a mod that requires nerves of steel though!

Speaking as someone who has fitted hundreds of preamps to the sides of all kinds of acoustics, I can tell you it's an easy mod. You would just need a template and a steady hand with a Dremel (Hey! Don't you have one of those? ?)

Is it because of this same principle why some Ovations have multiple soundholes?

No, that's purely because Charlie Kaman wanted something that looks different for the more expensive models.

If you have an artistic bent, you could even get creative:

Riaan

Now that's impressive! Ah yes, the Dremel... still high on my wish list! Wished I had one the other day when I polished my frets!

Attila

Ja a demil would have been handy,

but Tim makes fancy designs because he chargers $6k + for his instruments. One thing that he suggests is that the result is better using an oval hole rather than round.

Tip: if you are going to try this use a good quality circular dril saw or dremil as Alan points out, and take your time....... the position of the hole is a personal choice, if when playing sytle is in the neck up position (classical) the more forward on the lowerbout it shoul be be, kinda makes sense.

Manfred-Klose

thats a innovative idea, i'll try, because i started getting back problems because of acousic guitars.

FatBoy

Interesting idea, it does make sense. I don't think I'm ready to cut my baby though!

Shibbibilybob

Hey guys. I would like to bump this thread, from many years ago, and ask a question to Attila.

Do you happen to still have the correspondence between yourself and Tim? I am curious to hear where he thought was the ideal spot for sound port placement.

I am currently building an African Blackwood OM at Casimi Guitars, under Matthias Roux and Matthew Rice(previously of Mainguard guitars).
They've not really experimented with sound ports before, but we have decided to put one in my guitar.

I'd be curious to hear anything you know?

Attila

Shi.....ob Firstly I am green with envy

I don't have that correspondence anymore. But make contact directly with Tim he is very helpful

From what I recall the placement is less scientific than earlier thought. The general placement is as the photos indicate in the thread. But talk to the man for direction

It's a pity you are not in jhb so you can hear for yourself. Better still if you have an old beater experiment some

Malkav

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Is it because of this same principle why some Ovations have multiple soundholes?
No, that's purely because Charlie Kaman wanted something that looks different for the more expensive models.

I know I'm not allowed to comment about them cause I work for them and all - but that's wrong... :-\ There's more than just an aesthetic reason for the epaulets...

Bob-Dubery

Riaan wrote: Is it because of this same principle why some Ovations have multiple soundholes?

Those are in the top, facing outwards - they're not soundports.

Shibbibilybob

Do they provide some kind of stiffness? Or are the holes placed with knowledge of the vibrational nodes on the top?
Maybe something to do with several smaller sound holes allowing a better mass to stiffness ratio than one single large one?
The problem with such guess work and estimation is that there are simply too many variables to have any meaningful conversation about sound hole placement without talking about specifics of an individual guitar.

Malkav

Shibbibilybob wrote: Do they provide some kind of stiffness? Or are the holes placed with knowledge of the vibrational nodes on the top?
Maybe something to do with several smaller sound holes allowing a better mass to stiffness ratio than one single large one?
The problem with such guess work and estimation is that there are simply too many variables to have any meaningful conversation about sound hole placement without talking about specifics of an individual guitar.

If you're referring to Ovations then you're getting warmer but the design is for other reasons ? I can assure you that it's not guess work on their part, just careful R&D like any other brand.

deefstes

Shibbibilybob wrote: Do they provide some kind of stiffness? Or are the holes placed with knowledge of the vibrational nodes on the top?

From what I understand there is very little vibrational nodes on the neck end of the body. The bulk of the sound carrying vibration happens in the bulge end of the body. I should think that they probably play around with hole design and placement at least to make sure they get the best results but I suspect it makes very little difference though.

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote:
Shibbibilybob wrote: Do they provide some kind of stiffness? Or are the holes placed with knowledge of the vibrational nodes on the top?
From what I understand there is very little vibrational nodes on the neck end of the body. The bulk of the sound carrying vibration happens in the bulge end of the body. I should think that they probably play around with hole design and placement at least to make sure they get the best results but I suspect it makes very little difference though.

Well, that's vibrations in the top, and it mostly happens south of the bridge.

I had a chat a few years ago with luthier Nick Benjamin (check out his guitars, they are things of beauty). We were talking about cutaways and he said that the top in the area that is removed for a cutaway is to all practical intents and purposes dead. The back might still have a little life left in it (this is for guitars with a flat, wooden back, so maybe not applicable to Ovations).

So the placing of the soundholes on the Adamas is down to two things that I can see/hear/think of
1) Aesthetics
2) Acoustics - the way the waves in the guitar behave. This would include resonance and inclination to feedback.

Shibbibilybob

Yeah C.A.D, I was not claiming it was guess work on the part of the designers haha, but on our part.
That in order for our discussion to be in any way relevant, we'd have to get involved in the full guitars design, and get out our pencils and sit down for some hairy maths.

Whilst the majority of the vibrations on the top are below the saddles, I don't doubt that you could change the way that portion of the top vibrates, by removing sections closer to the neck.

Malkav

X-rated Bob wrote: 2) Acoustics - the way the waves in the guitar behave. This would include resonance and inclination to feedback.

And Bob wins the prize! ?

I can't really get into it though because I happen to love Ovations so it's almost impossible for me to talk about their designs without it sounding like I'm trying to "sell" them, which is a no go on this forum when in real life I do in fact sell them ?