Multi FX for acoustics/piezo's

Riaan

I've been thinking of getting an acoustic multi fx pedal for use with well, acoustic guitars but also with the piezo output of my Godin. The two that seems quite nice are the Korg PX4A and the Zoom A2.

It seems that the Korg gets good reviews, but a major drawback is the plastic housing and lack of a footswitch. The Zoom on the other hand, has a metal housing and footswitch. Anyone has experience with either of these for acoustics and electric guitars with piezo's?

I'm leaning towards the Zoom at the moment, it certainly does look much better than my old 505II pedal.

This pedal will ultimately be a part of my "minimalist pedal board" which once completed, I'll show you all....it's not so minimalist anymore. But then you all knew that would happen, didn't you... ?

guitarboy2828

Hmm.. Depends on how much you want to spend? I'm not a big fan of zoom stuff, only because I had a 505 pedal and thought it was horrid!!

There are some nice pedals out there for acoustic. I think there are only a few effects one really wants and needs with acoustics, so something like this may work.

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/AD-8/index.html I have the boss ad-3, it works well, the feedback stopper thing is cool. The chorus and reverb are also really nice.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GNatural/ Then there's this! ? I just got the nova system a week ago and wow, effects are awesome.. So if you wana go big! ?

There is also the Yamaha acoustic Magicstomp.
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/PressReleaseDetail/0,,CNTID%253D49107%2526CTID%253D551476%2526CNTYP%253DNEWS,00.html

Anyways, if none of these appeal to you.. I'd go with the korg, unless you want to use it live, then go with the zoom.. But test the zoom our first, not sure how good the effects will sound.. ☹

Riaan

Wow, that Yamaha Magicstomp is one sweet pedal. I didn't know about those. Thanks!

AlanRatcliffe

Guitarboy covered it pretty well. Don't forget Guitar Rig works well too, but for hardware, there's not much available. I'm still waiting for a good multiFX with acoustic modelling built in.

TC is top of the heap - studio quality effects. The Boss AD-8 didn't do anything for me that a decent amp couldn't - I had more success using the GT-Pro with amp and speaker sims turned off. Don't know much The Magicstomp has AFAIK been discontinued (there were many complaints of it being noisy too). I haven't tried the Korg, but the fact it is a small unit puts me off it completely.

Otherwise any good effects unit can work (as long as you keep amp and speaker sims off and keep distortion fx to a minimum). Generally, less is more with acoustic processing.

Riaan

My idea is that the pedalboard will have two signal paths: one for magnetic PUP's and one for piezo's (the latter for either acoustic or the Godin). I don't plan to have that many effects for the piezo signal really - perhaps just compression, EQ and delay. I was thinking of a way to avoid duplicate pedals for each signal path, figuring that the cheapest way would be to get a small multi-fx unit for the piezo signal. TC looks like a fabulous unit but it's way beyond my needs and budget. Maybe some duplication of pedals is the way to go after all?

I use Guitar Rig for acoustics/piezo's but the idea of the pedalboard is to be able to play without using the PC at all. Let's face it, this is sheer and utter GAS... :-[....be it a pedalboard to be independant of the computer, or a computer upgrade to get better performance from the software. I reckon a good pedalboard will have a longer shelf live than a PC upgrade and newer versions of software.

Ray

A few months ago I was keen on one. Scouted around a bit.

http://www.musicradar.com/gear/all/guitars/fx/multi-fx/px4a-20504/review

And now I'm keen on one again.

Keira-WitherKay

if the korg acoustic unit is the korg pandora, then yeah it's got awesome sounds and the effects are great ........... the modelling is also usable....... but not on par with say a fishman aura but we talking a huge price difference........ and the aura is in a different class financially by far ....so no point in comparing a budget unit to a top end studio machine

DON'T LET THE SIZE PUT YOU OFF............ i used this for many pro gigs....... using my guitar into the pandora then into a DI and straight into PA and the truth about acoustic effects is ussually you don't want to edit them and mostly don't wanna even alter them onstage......... since acoustic effects are ussually used to help you get one great sound and thats what you use............ for this this unit is great it's cheap and loaded with really good sounding features....................

ONE PROBLEM.......... i stopped using mine for one reason that was it's a hint noisy for top line pro gigs and recording ........ .. but so is the yamaha stomp box and most other cheaper (same price range fx boards) ........ but at smaller gigs it was cool............ i used in in many hotel and casino gigs around the world ............ and sound guys were always happy .......... just for recording or when you want a pristine acoustic sound it won't work cos in fact most all effects won't work for that "purist" sound........ as they all colour or add noise/hiss, no matter what price..........

so yeah don't kick the pandora to the curb too quickly cos it's small and compact and plastic...which makes it light ........ it's small and fits into your guitar case and clips onto your guitar strap which is handy for a gigging muso..and it has the potential to create a fat warm sound that could make your piezo PUPS sound awesome for just over a grand if i recall............ so plenty of magic in that box......... and if they sort the noise issue in more recent models one i would buy again ...........

a swiss army knife for acoustics is best way to sum it up .......

Riaan

I e-mailed Yamaha SA to find out where to get the MagicStomp, and this was their reply:

Unfortunately these are not available anymore even from the manufactures. Yamaha have discontinued all guitar /pedal effects units
Sorry we can't help
Yamaha dist S.A.

AlanRatcliffe

Hmm... the Pandora does look attractive as long as you don't mind a small unit and a bit of noise. Getting one however...

What are you plugging into though? A good amp is 9/10th of the battle (and a lot cheaper than you would expect. Many even have a few decent FX built in (usually reverb and chorus).

I tried every amp I could get my hands on recently (and specifically with piezo electric). Surprisingly, some of the expensive amps were not "all that" and some of the cheaper ones did surprisingly well. Do yourself a favour and try the Ibanez Troubadour T20 - it has chorus and reverb, a very good preset limiter (knobless compressor) and a very usable EQ (including a "shaped" sound on the input, which worked very well). It also goes surprisingly loud without any clipping. The one downside (for me) is a lack of DI. Put it this way - I was impressed enough to ask Gareth to call me when the T35 gets in (which has the DI), and unless it's a trainwreck, I'm gonna take one.

I'm busy building up my pedal collection now. If I want complex I use guitar rig, so I can make the "real amp rig" a lot simpler, to wit:
Magnetic - Korg Pitchblack - TC Nova Drive - Fender Twin
Piezo - Boss AF9 - TC Nova Delay - Boss RT-20 - Ibanez T35

Riaan

What are you plugging into though

I don't have an acoustic amp yet, but the Ibanez certainly does look nice. For now, as far as the piezo output is concerned, DI into my Edirol soundcard to monitors. Which means booting up the PC of course, and then I open GR also.... ? So yes, it does mean getting an acoustic amp at some point.

There are one or two Korg's on EBay at the moment, none of them looks like they're shipping international however. I did read some good stuff about the Zoom on some other forums however. Maybe one shouldn't shoot it down just yet.

My next move, is waiting for all the pedals I've ordered to arrive, then construct the pedalboard - I have some aluminium from an old patio door lying around which I'll use, this is actually the bit I'm looking forward to the most, designing the whole thing. Then figure out the pedal order, and so forth. After that I'll focus on the amplification bit. For now my Roland Bluescube and the soundcard will be it.

Ray

try take2 for the korg. Contact Musicmadness on this forum about the t35 - I think they have it listed on special:

http://www.musicmadness.co.za/

AlanRatcliffe

That's a great price - about 33% off. That's the way I'd go - get the amp and then see what effects you still want to add.

Ray

It's a very good amp and when I was looking at it along came a Laney LA30C for nearly nothing not really but cheap so I bought it. But I do think the Ibanez is good. Tried one and it knocks the socks off what I got. And the reviews all over say the same for it.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: a very good preset limiter (knobless compressor)

I've looked at some pictures of the control panel and it seems that that feature is preset and always on.

So what does it do for the player?

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote: So what does it do for the player?

It's a peak limiter, so it only kicks in at extremes of volume, just to prevent clipping. Pretty much transparent to my ear at low volumes. It worked pretty well with my dynamic playing style, swapping between soft fingerpicking and percussive thumping.

Squonk

guitarboy2828 wrote: Hmm.. Depends on how much you want to spend? I'm not a big fan of zoom stuff, only because I had a 505 pedal and thought it was horrid!!
Anyways, if none of these appeal to you.. I'd go with the korg, unless you want to use it live, then go with the zoom.. But test the zoom our first, not sure how good the effects will sound.. ☹

The army of Zoom haters continues to grow.... ?

Seriously, the 505 range was Zooms first entry into a budget multi-effects pedal. And at the time Korg's and Digitechs budget pedals were no better, maybe even poorer.

Then Zoom brought out the 707 range which was vastly improved.

Then came the G2 (A2 the acoustic version) which was a huge improvement on the 505. So if you are judging Zoom on the 505, you are in for a huge surprise.

The Pandora has brilliant features like the drums and bass tracks that you can solo over, but using in a loop or live I think the Zoom would work better.

I nearly bought the A2 but the Metalhead that's hiding in me chose the G2.1U pedal.

It comes in handy now that I have an electric.

But there are more expensive options available but the Zoom does the job, and even if you test it at the local music shop, just remember that the stock patches are awful. It's best to start at zero and start adding effects from scratch.

My two cents on Zoom, I know the flaming will start ?

guitarboy2828

Squonk wrote:
guitarboy2828 wrote: Hmm.. Depends on how much you want to spend? I'm not a big fan of zoom stuff, only because I had a 505 pedal and thought it was horrid!!
Anyways, if none of these appeal to you.. I'd go with the korg, unless you want to use it live, then go with the zoom.. But test the zoom our first, not sure how good the effects will sound.. ☹
The army of Zoom haters continues to grow.... ?

Seriously, the 505 range was Zooms first entry into a budget multi-effects pedal. And at the time Korg's and Digitechs budget pedals were no better, maybe even poorer.

Then Zoom brought out the 707 range which was vastly improved.

Then came the G2 (A2 the acoustic version) which was a huge improvement on the 505. So if you are judging Zoom on the 505, you are in for a huge surprise.

The Pandora has brilliant features like the drums and bass tracks that you can solo over, but using in a loop or live I think the Zoom would work better.

I nearly bought the A2 but the Metalhead that's hiding in me chose the G2.1U pedal.

It comes in handy now that I have an electric.

But there are more expensive options available but the Zoom does the job, and even if you test it at the local music shop, just remember that the stock patches are awful. It's best to start at zero and start adding effects from scratch.

My two cents on Zoom, I know the flaming will start ?

Flame flame.. Ok, now that the flaming is done, we can continue! ? I haven't played any newer zoom pedals, i have written them off in my mind, terrible I know. I actually would like to hear some sounds from one, so OP if you get one, do post some demo clips! ?

Keira-WitherKay

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I tried every amp I could get my hands on recently (and specifically with piezo electric). Surprisingly, some of the expensive amps were not "all that" and some of the cheaper ones did surprisingly well. Do yourself a favour and try the Ibanez Troubadour T20 - it has chorus and reverb, a very good preset limiter (knobless compressor) and a very usable EQ (including a "shaped" sound on the input, which worked very well). It also goes surprisingly loud without any clipping. The one downside (for me) is a lack of DI. Put it this way - I was impressed enough to ask Gareth to call me when the T35 gets in (which has the DI), and unless it's a trainwreck, I'm gonna take one.

i also have an older model troubladour ibanez TA35 ........ which i think the T35 replaced...........

it also has great EQ section with sweepable mid, 10" speaker with HF tweeter in middle of speaker so truly full range...........the reverb and chorus is there and good................ the reverb on old model is perfect sounding for guitar ..the chorus i never use ..............

actually we , my singer and I did a small soft jazz gig for lunch yesterday and used the TA35 as sole amplification..............

the limiter is preset as alan mentioned and for my likes kicks in way too early ...........

which makes it a great sounding amp but a soft amp in comparison to say my crate Taxi 30 W ........... but the 10" speakers makes the sound of the TA 35 fatter than the crates 8" speaker so i use it rather as a small PA ......................but the guitar tone is nice through TA35 .......... and as i just said the 10" speaker makes a huge difference to the tone over the competitions 8" or 6.5" speakers ..........the ibanez with the 10" gives a bigger warmer sound but it's still not a louder amp than some of the other same wattage acoustic amp models in same price range .........

also try the new crate acoustic amps they great too if you can get em here .........

but truly one can't get past an AER compact 60 as an acoustic amp........ but the price tag is scary so while one is saving ............ a T35 or is a great cheap amp to bridge the gap.......... and if you get lucky and buy 2nd hand they available at awesome prices...........i found my TA35 troubladour (older model) in a pawn shop for R800 in perfect working order

so i agree with alan that some of the new acoustic amps are top class for the money and all offer about the same features of good parametric eq and reverb/chorus.......... and the new roland AC33 even offers a looper and should be available soon

Riaan

a T35 or is a great cheap amp to bridge the gap..........

So I've decided to go this route, and ordered a T35 from Matt at Musicmadness, his last one on special I think. Great price for an amp that I've only read good things about. I can't wait to get it! Since it has chorus and reverb the acoustics effects is sorted out, to a large extent. I have a LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI which I guess will come in handy on this part of the signal.

Riaan

Got my T35 amp this afternoon and tried it out tonight - sweet! Exactly what I was looking for, it sounds great with my acoustic guitars as well as with the piezo's on my Godin. And I can really recommend Musicmadness - a great and no-nonsense deal, fast delivery, great communication and very reasonable shipping costs out to my remote, mouldy and dark little dwelling in the platteland. I will definitely get more stuff from them in the coming weeks!