Different Les Paul wirings

nicovlogg

Finally got some new pickups for my Epiphone Les Paul - Tonerider Generator for the bridge and Alnico IV Classic for the neck. That was the easy part. Now I'm stuck on the wiring. The problem isn't finding a schematic, the problem is that there seems to be about a million different ways to wire the tone controls in. OK, that was hyperbole. These are what I found:

1. The SD and ToneRider recommended way. This is how my LP was wired, except with different ratings on the caps.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

2. The Modern way: Here the hot pole of the volume pot is connected via a cap to the centre lug on the tone pot.
http://alexplorer.net/guitar/basics/lpschem.html

3. Guitarelectronics way: Apparently also called '50s style wiring
http://static.zoovy.com/img/guitarelectronics/-/wdu_hh3t22_02

What I want/need to know now is what the tonal differences are between these, which cap values are recommended and what the gurus here prefer? I'm so confused.. ☹

MikeM

I don't have experience, but for now,

50s wiring makes the tone control more usable, the volume between the pups should also be independant (I think) meaning that you can turn one off, and in mid, the other will still be on. Now unless I'm confused, the difference between modern and 50s, is just swapping the center lug + side lug. Look closely and you'll spot it ?

0.22 is the commonly used value for caps on humbuckers, but again it's up to you. 0.47 will cut out a larger range of the highs, where the 0.22 will be a bit more narrow.

nicovlogg

MikeM wrote Now unless I'm confused, the difference between modern and 50s, is just swapping the center lug + side lug. Look closely and you'll spot it ?

Yeah that's all. But apparently it has quite a difference in treble bleed, I've heard that with the 50's wiring you don't need a treble bleed cap. Which is nice. ?

MikeM

I never use treble bleeds as I like losing the treble as I roll down volume :-[

ezietsman

The 50s wiring actually messes with the middle position on a les paul. IF one volume is at 0 there is no sound. You can wire it so this doesn't happen.

The difference between modern and 50s is that in the former, the tone circuit is connected to the input of the volume pot and to the output in the latter (What MikeM said). The effect this has is that for modern wiring, the volume control will cut out treble when you lower it, as you may well know. That doesn't happen with 50s wiring. The volume ONLY controls the volume and has no effect on the EQ.

I believe (I may be wrong) that when all the controls are fully open the two methods will still give the same tone.

6x9base13

ezietsman wrote The 50s wiring actually messes with the middle position on a les paul. IF one volume is at 0 there is no sound. You can wire it so this doesn't happen.

Been researching this sort of thing too. Here's a link to the independent volume mod http://www.blueskillet.com/Gibson_Mods.htm#50s_Wiring

MikeM

Thanks for that. So now I know independent is not the same as 50s ?

nicovlogg

ezietsman wrote The volume ONLY controls the volume and has no effect on the EQ.

Sweet, that's how I'd prefer it.

But now I still want to know what the difference is between that and the seymour duncan wiring? :-[

MikeM

Just shhh and do the Seymour diagram and use this 50s tone mod.

djpauw

For me, there is no other way of wiring an LP than the so-called "full boat" with 4x push pull pots. It gives you an amazing variety of settings that no other wiring method can.

Cheers

Skywalker

djpauw wrote For me, there is no other way of wiring an LP than the so-called "full boat" with 4x push pull pots. It gives you an amazing variety of settings that no other wiring method can.

Cheers

Full boat indeed. I had my RG's setup in a similar way a good few years ago. Coil taps, 5 way switch,mini switches etc and tons of options. Only thing was I was playing around with the damn switches too much and ended up not playing the actual guitar ? Simple is key for me now although a push/pull pot or 2 on my LP's could be interesting.

nicovlogg

Just some feedback - did the 50's wiring, without bothering about independent volume. Result is awesome! In the middle position, if both volume pots aren't full on, it does sound strange - hard to describe, but like only one pickup is really coming through. But the treble loss is a lot less when rolling down the volume, doesn't preserve tone 100% but actually mellows it out just right. This is going in my tele as well!

Tokai-SA

ezietsman wrote The 50s wiring actually messes with the middle position on a les paul. IF one volume is at 0 there is no sound.

It's interesting you mention that.
I was with Gavin Morein from Music Mate Cresta yesterday, well, I was watching and he was playing, and he really liked the fact that one volume at 0 kills the sound.
When you're gigging and you need to kill your sound instantly, it's kind of difficult to zero two volume knobs at once. ?

If you get a chance go watch him play, he's a killer guitarist, ex Just Jinger guitarist.