ezietsman wrote
I took my trusty battle axe (Epi LP with SD JB and Alnico II Pro) and my Blackstar HT-5 to Bothner's in Plumstead today in order to try out the Tokais they have there and measure them against something I know.
Good move taking your tried and trusted in with you.
Firstly. The LS85 (or whatever it was, silly numbers), sounds better than the Epi (no surprises). It has better lows, better sustain and a much richer overall tone. It has more balls according to aforementioned musician. The neck pickup is much stronger than the one in my Epi, too strong for my liking, although the HT-5 breaks up easily on the clean channel so a bigger amp will remedy ( or an adjustment of pickup height). The bridge pickup is much smoother than mine, not quite as brutal. I like that one more than the JB. Here comes the but. BUT, even for R9000 (Bothner's wants much more than that), these guitars aren't, in my opinion, a big enough improvement over mine to to replace it. They sound too similar. The musician said its like eating Creme Brulee at one restaurant or at another. One is slightly tastier but when all is said and done they're the same thing really.
Creme brulee... For some, Four Cousins and Thelema are both wine... I'm just sayin' ? But if you're happy with your Epiphone, then why upgrade to a Tokai or a Gibson? Epiphones have been made in a variety of factories with a big spread in quality. I've never played one myself that could hold a candle to my Gibson or my Tokai. But some of them are clearly better.
Secondly. The p90 model plays like the humbucker one but it doesn't sound like a LP. It sounds really growly and meaty and twangy and has balls like the other one. Very Very good. I never thought I'd say this but I think if I'm getting another guitar, it will be one like this, instead of getting another LP with humbuckers. Its totally different and for the bluesy type thing I like, its damn near perfect.
My other LP is a Gibson LP Deluxe with some great P-90s in it. I smiled when I read you saying it doesn't sound like an LP. I do know what you mean. But that's what the original LPs sounded like. It was the P-90 LP that Freddie King played that made Clapton want one - which was the main impetus for the 'burst boom in the '60s. No, they do sound very different. I feel like I have the most awesome set of guitars now with a double humbucker LP, a double P-90 LP, and a Strat style guitar. The tones are all so dramatically different. A P-90 does somehow sound amazingly natural. It's a weird thing to describe. They can be so ringing and musical, or the most roaring pickups imaginable.
Thirdly, I also tried a PRS SE with P90s. It does not compare in any way to my Epi, or the Tokai's. Sounds cheap and thin. Maybe the pickups are poor? Maybe if it was R4000 or so, but not for the R8k they want. Not sure what they should sell for.
I was also pretty disappointed trying two PRS SEs in Marshall a couple of months ago. They look really great in pictures, and the reviews were great, but the PRS SE One and the semi-hollow, both of which I rather fancied (not that I was in the market), seemed much cheaper and more lightweight (in all senses) than I'd expected. I'm sure they're still decent guitars, just not what I'd imagined.
So my opinion regarding the Tokais:
1. If you can afford a Tokai Love Rock and already have an Epi, by all means, get one, it is better but not day and night. Don't expect your tone to have a quantum leap. Think of it as a polish.
This depends a lot, as I said, on the Epiphone you have. If it's good, it's good. But if you've got a not-so-hot one, I believe that the difference will be substantial.
2. If you have a decent Epi (or whatever other decent twin humbucker guitar) and are strapped for cash, like most of us, and want a better guitar, give the P90 model a look. It is really really good. This obviously doesn't apply to metalheads.
The P90 really is, I think, the other pickup. The difference between say, a PAF humbucker and a TV Jones Gretsch humbucker is marginal, imo, compared to the difference between a P90, a humbucker, and a Fender-style single coil. Listen to The Who's Live at Leeds and you'll know you've been spoken to. The metal thing... I'm not so sure. Obviously I don't play it myself, but I do think that an adventurous player could create a unique, stand-out sound with P-90s. They have a lot more weight than Fender-style single coils. The first Black Sabbath albums were P90s. That's metal isn't it ?
Keep in mind I could only try out the two in the shop, they're both in the Vintage series of Tokai. They didn't have any of the premiums (e.g. LS150 and up) with the long neck tenon and single piece bodies etc. so I don't have any opinions about them (@Singemonkey: You should come over for a beer and bring it along ?)
These are the two that Alan reviewed along with mine, right? I think they're pretty representative. And I'm sure Alan is correct in saying that the differences with the LS150 are small (the diminishing returns again). For me, it was totally worth it. The LS150 sounds
exactly like the Les Pauls that made me love them to start with - that woody, almost acoustic sound you hear from Clapton, Page, Green, and Taylor. It's also far lighter than my LP Deluxe. It's clear that the quality of wood used was much better than my Gibson, hence the weight difference and a lot of that airy (as Alan put it) sound. All the other components are also vintage equivalent and better than the Gibson (it's made me think about getting the Gibson rewired and possibly getting a new bridge). Don't mistake me. My Gibson is no dud. It's a beautifully put together guitar. It's just heavier, denser mahogany than 50s LPs, short tenon, heavier tailpiece, crappier pots and caps, etc. Still a great guitar that will beat an average modern Gibson taken straight off the factory line.
The Tokai though, has the whole package; the whole reason why Gibson's badly selling 50s LPs went on to become the most sought after electrics in the world.
I'll most definitely bring the LS150 over. I'd love to hear that little amp apart from anything.
I realised, by playing these guitars, that the bridge pickup in my Epi is too hot and screamy for my purposes...
I agree. If you're into blues, a PAF style humbucker is almost certainly what you're after in an LP.
That all said, one day when I'm all grown up and stuff I'll get me one of each of these.
Great decision to stick by a guitar that you're happy with and not just upgrade for the sake of it. I wasn't so lucky with my first electric (which I still have in a cupboard at my folks's place). A real POS with the only redeeming quality that it looked just like a '50s Stratocaster.
For people that missed it, here's Alan's review of the same two Tokais plus mine:
http://articles.guitarforum.co.za/reviews/review-tokai-love-rock-guitars
