is this possible??? to do on classical guitars fretboard

Keira-WitherKay

hello all, i have the chance of buying an awesome classical guitar , with the tone i love..... and a custom luthier build........... however the guitar was made initially for someone who liked an incredibly high action at 12th fret .....

so the luthier has taken the action down , he says as much as possible but however said he doubts it's low enough for me(he has seen how my classicals are setup) .......

so since we can't lower the bridge or nut anymore....... i was thinking if one removed the frets ...... and took a few mm off the fretboard and refretted it ...one could get the action down a few mm more ............so my question to the likes of Alan and other acoustic specialists is would this work? and be possible ......

and yes i know this is a big job, but this guitar is being offered at a fabulous price and i love the instrument but it must be functional for me.......and become my gig guitar to warrant such an expense......... but at the price he's willing to sell it for, i could afford a "mod" to the fretboard that would be worth it cos this instrument is worth it ..........

i am going to see the instrument with the new action height today ...... and need to decide to take it or not............

so just wanna hear some external input..............

as i will ask the luthier the same thing if the present action is not low enough ........ but input from other sources is always valuable

thanks in anticipation for your replies

AlanRatcliffe

It's not going to work. Lowering the board will actually take the action up because the bridge height is fixed. You'd actually need a thicker fretboard to bring the board up to the strings. The best option would be to remove the bridge, shave some thickness off the bottom (if there is enough meat there) and reattach.

Keira-WitherKay

alan i hear what you saying but the problem is the bridge still has some way to go but the angle from nut causes the strings to be too close to fretboard in 1st 5 fretsthen the action increases as one goes higher ............ cos the E string seems close to the fretboard in 1st few frets .this is what needs leveling out i reckon ......... so maybe just flatten the angle of the fretboard.......... so it does not bottom out in first 5 frets when the action is dropped at the saddle but then at the 12th fret the action can be lower .......... so maybe even heightening the nut i guess might help ...........

the neck angle seems to be the prob which initially allowed for a high action at 12th which was part of the design .... grrrrrrrr so frustrating

damn quite hard to put into words .... but i'll keep all the options in mind............

Bob-Dubery

I agree with Alan. The problem that you're describing is similar to that that you get on old steel string guitars that need a neck resest. Except that here the problem would seem to be not that the neck angle has changed but that the guitar was just built that way (a design decision).

I'm sure it can be remedied, but it will be a lot of work. Suggest you ask the luthier and also a trusted repair person to quote on this.

Bob-Dubery

Take one of your current guitars along. Ask the luthier to measure the nut, the bridge, action at the 12th fret and whatever else he needs and then ask him if he can match that on his instrument.

Keira-WitherKay

ok i just got back from playing the guitar for the last hour .... ? lovely , original tone, and the wood choice ( of solid spruce top and yes wait for it ... solid maple back and sides ) should have it sounding sharp and bright but it has a warm rounded tone even the luthier says is contrary to the expectations.......... yet just what i like.......... so i'm extatic with it ...........

the action however is still too high ......so the deal is 90% (for) and 10% (against) but the luthier says he could get a full mm maybe a hint more off the action at 12 fret by reducing the fretboard in the 1st 7 frets and lowering the nut ..... or of course the other alternative is what alan suggested and remove the bridge and reduce that by also about 1 mm ..........so about 2 mm or just over could be the end result if both methods are employed ...........

and the last course of action is that already the action is lower than most classical players want at the 12th fret ... since i come from the jazz guitar world not the classical background i like the low flat jazz feel but maybe i must just get used to the higher action at 12th fret ........ since it seems the classical players all cope with it , why couldn't i......... btw james grace has tested this guitar and prefered it for jazz than classical(so a great step in the right direction as far as i'm concerned ) and tessa ziegler recommends and endorses this luthiers guitars...... but i was told that Tessa Ziegler plays with her guitars set up to a whole 6mm at the 12th fret incredibly high .............

so yeah seems this guitar might be worth this old dog learning new tricks ......... well one new trick anyway ....... of how to deal with a higher action ? definitely learning to cope with it is my cheapest option .......... yet this guitar has an image i love and a tone that i could make a part of my sound as it's virtualy the sound i have in my "head" to how i want a guitar to sound .......... so spending some extra dosh on the fix would be worth it .............

now i will mull over this discision for next week and make up my mind..........either way

Bob-Dubery

Keira WitherKay wrote the action however is still too high ......so the deal is 90% (for) and 10% (against) but the luthier says he could get a full mm maybe a hint more off the action at 12 fret by reducing the fretboard in the 1st 7 frets and lowering the nut ..... or of course the other alternative is what alan suggested and remove the bridge and reduce that by also about 1 mm ..........so about 2 mm or just over could be the end result if both methods are employed ...........

Did you try with a capo? You usually use one, and that will eliminate the height of the bridge from the equation.

I hope this works out for you.

racman

Is the guitar made by Murray Kuun, Keira?

Keira-WitherKay

racman wrote Is the guitar made by Murray Kuun, Keira?

yes ...... it's his very 1st classical build........ norma jean #1 so it will have some history....... he has agreed to sell it to me ... after i went to see his new stars and moon guitar which is awesome ..... but too trebly for me....... and i told him this when i tried it a few weeks back and he dashed down to workshop and pulled out this and smiled and said i bet the sound you looking for is here ........ and it was......... very strange cos the classical fraterity thought norma jean #1 needed a sharper top end......... but to me it's perfect...... i like a rounded top end....... we chatted and he suggested a price and well only thing i didn't like was the action.also the more angular design will be fabulous on my stage......quite distictive and will definitely turn heads ......... there is a repaired crack on the top....... but that flaw prob makes it affordable for me to buy it ..and i love the sound as it is ....... and as you guys know.... i have no worries on what the guitar looks like or if it's pristine, i just want a good tone and a great feeling neck......... this guitar will suit my compositions very well ....... and has that vibe i'm seeking in the tone ...... definitely a one off for tone and character .......

so yes it's murray kuuns build .......

btw go check out his steel string jazz guitar ......awesome and incredible feel and tone thats a gem..... so is his moon and stars design classical if you a dedicated classical player and want that bright tone .......and incredible attack

Keira-WitherKay

here's a pic of norma jean #2 the #1 model has a slightly wider waist ...........but otherwise the same

racman

I quite like the angular style of the Norma Jean which will suit your distinctive playing style as well. Of course style without tone is meaningless as we know. And tone is just a headache when the price is too high as well!

(Of course you will no longert be able to brag about playing a Pawn Shop Special anymore and will have to go undercover with you exclusive, custom, luthier built guitar. You could go on about the minor crack and high action but in truth no one will really see it as anything other than an exclusive custom guitar - enjoy !!!! ? ? ?)

Keira-WitherKay

racman wrote I quite like the angular style of the Norma Jean which will suit your distinctive playing style as well. Of course style without tone is meaningless as we know. And tone is just a headache when the price is too high as well!

(Of course you will no longert be able to brag about playing a Pawn Shop Special anymore and will have to go undercover with you exclusive, custom, luthier built guitar. You could go on about the minor crack and high action but in truth no one will really see it as anything other than an exclusive custom guitar - enjoy !!!! ? ? ?)

well the tone is perfect.......... for me anyway........ but that action might still be the deal breaker ........ so i'm not 100% convinced i'll take it yet ............and yes the price is affordable for me..... which i initially thought would be outa reach....... but murray i think took pity on me being a pro muso and decided to give me a deal almost too good to refuse .........

mmmmmmm i'll always keep my collection of pawn shop yamaha's and they still are all instruments way beyond most peoples imagination at such a fraction of the cost..........and i kid you not ... i have had numerous people at a show ask me what luthier designed my pawn shop specials .i just smile and say yamaha off the rack models.............. so yeah i'll keep trawling the pawn shops even if i sell out and buy a luthier built instrument ....i'll always stay true to my roots ? and i do believe there are many gems out there just waiting to be discovered ....without having to take a 2nd mortgage on the house ..anyway i'm still looking for an early designed aria....... made in japan

AlanRatcliffe

Even better - get Murray to make a new, lower bridge for it. ?

aja

zohn wrote I played that guitar - what impressed me most was how light it was - I think it weighs less than the strings.... ?

So what you mean to say is that when you strum the strings they remain still while the guitar vibrates up and down ? ???

zohn

aja wrote
zohn wrote I played that guitar - what impressed me most was how light it was - I think it weighs less than the strings.... ?
So what you mean to say is that when you strum the strings they remain still while the guitar vibrates up and down ? ???

? Yip - the difficult part is to strum the guitar while holding the strings... ?