vic wrote
I fear that it has become just another platform to dig into the ribs of Gibson.
All discussions of the availability of Tokais in South Africa must be put in reference to Gibson. The only other versions of Gibson's '50s and '60s guitars have been budget alternatives - beginner's guitars. If fans of Tokai are to adequately explain them, they must explain that they can be compared not to those beginner's guitars, but to Gibson branded guitars. This is essential to passing on the understanding that Tokai fans have.
Gibson fans need not feel persecuted - despite many of the attacks against the company being made by Gibson owners (your's truly included). The company still controls the lion's share of the market, and would, no doubt, be actively legally intimidating Lance, as they've done to so many others, were it not for the fact that their own policy of demanding the retention of millions of rands in stocks to get a Gibson retail agency has effectively meant their disappearance from SA - not to mention mom 'n pop stores in the USA.
If someone says of Tokais, "Well, it's just not as good as a Gibson," we're sure as hell going to bring up the reasons why we think it is. Saying that Tokais are as good as Gibson doesn't mean that we're arguing that it's foolish to own a Gibson, or even that a Gibson buyer is, what's the word, gullible, for buying one. Gibson still makes wonderful guitars - even factory models if you're aware of the quality control issues. So unless a person is a Gibson share-holder as well as a Gibson guitar owner, I see no reason to feel brow-beaten by this subject.
kp247 wrote
Right, I'm not attacking anyone, and if some feel I did - I apologize! It wasn't my intention. ?
Like Vic, I am now a proud Gibson owner, and unlike someone suggested here I bought my Custom brand new for less than 30K. The link I added served only as a recent example to show that top quality Gibson guitars can indeed be purchased new for a decent price, unlike what the general consensus in this thread appears to be.
"It is in excellent condition and is glossy and has very little playwear"
I don't mean to be sarcastic, but that doesn't sound very new.
Now here's a something to think about. If Tokai were to take all the design elements, time and effort that they put into creating their faithful Gibson copies and use the same materials, tops, woods, etc to build a unique guitar that they could call an original do you think that local retailers would be able to sell such an instrument for 30K - I think not! Probably closer to 5K.
I think Gibson has long since paid off the design costs they incurred in 1952. If Gibson created a new guitar and tried to charge R30K for it, I think they'd have a pretty hard time too, irrespective of the market power of their name.
I stand by my original thread and this thread will probably lead nowhere, like the other ones, but it is still very interesting to observe how people react to criticism!
You called us gullible. Then offered unconvincing evidence of that gullibility, imo. This has not been an element of this debate up until now. Our reaction is made stronger by this claim. I'd argue that that was predictable.
