kp247 wrote:
singemonkey wrote:
This is why we make such a noise about Tokai. The reality is that they're brand new here, and virtually no one outside this forum knows about them. Hence the effort to inform and compare.
Trust me to stir again! Here's some more angles on the Tokai issue! ?
Actually Tokai has been in South Africa before with their versions of Gibsons and Fenders, amongst other models. They also manufacture OEM guitars for Fender Japan and these are apparently the ones we get in South Africa.
Evidence please? I've seen Burnys and Ibanez Gibson copies. Never Tokai.
The Tokai-manufactured Gibsons and Fenders are not exported to the USA and Germany since they will be sued there for copyright infringements,
Us gullible people who don't realise Tokai's are cheap knock-offs pretty much all know this site:
http://www.tokaiguitar.de/ 'Course if you didn't, googling "Tokai Germany" would have brought it up as the top hit.
so the other OEM manufacturer Dyna Gakki builds the Japanese Fenders under license (in Japan, Korea and China) for the US and German markets - interesting!
Fender never produced guitars under the Fender brand that were made in Korea or China, as far as I'm aware. However, those fakers, Tokai, did make a substantial portion of the Fender Japan line.
As for their Les Paul copies - there is also talk about the VOS spec being "general" rather than "faithful" and that many of the highly figured tops on particular models are veneer rather than solid tops.
I'm sure there's plenty of talk on www.japaneseguitarsareunamericanfakes.com. I've also heard talk that, for example, the bumblebee caps in VOS Gibsons are just solid caps in a colourful wrapping (which the bumblebees in top-end Tokais are not). But I don't really think that says anything bad about VOS Gibsons.
Tokai isn't shy about saying when veneer is used. Those guitars also cost a fraction of a factory Gibson. So fair enough. You want a flame maple top, you pay. Simple as that.
The above info I obtained from various US and European Guitar Forums that has some very influential members within the guitar manufacturing industry so please don't crucify me. It's all open to debate.
It's all open to debate. Yes. Whether Elvis is still alive is open to debate. Whether Eugene Terreblanch was actually a member of the Black Panther party is open to debate. However, if one side of the debate is loaded down with facts, and the other with vague insinuations, I'd argue that they're not equal sides.
It's just that I'm always interested in the Gibson copy industry since there appears to be so many of these companies in the East making guitars that for all intents and purposes look and behave like the genuine article. I even know of a bloke who claims that he can get genuine (but obviously fake) Gibson Les Paul guitars from China with the proper Gibson logo and everything for around $500.
Ah. Association with fakers. This line of argument is often referred to in forum discussions about trolls in "various US and European Guitar Forums." However, Tokai, Ibanez, Yamaha, Burny, Bacchus, Greco, Edwards (by ESP), Navigator (by ESP) all proudly display their names on their headstocks. And you'd have a tough time finding one new for $500 too.
Where there's smoke........... ?
...there are often mirrors.
