IceCreamMan
REad an article in which it was stated that ppl who play musical instruments generally have higher IQ's than none players. Now we all know guitarists are the pick of the musical bunch so any mensans here?
[deleted]
Dude, you're advertising a Cube 60 for a stupidly low price and nobody's taken it up. Does that answer the question? ?
Well, I understand how music is related to mathematics, and how IQ tests tend to be loaded in favour of spatial-mathematical reasoning...but I can't believe that musicality (how much is enough? Strumming? Tapping? Arjun Menon?) would round out enough facets of intelligence to make it a fully causal relationship.
IceCreamMan
Stratisfear wrote
Dude, you're advertising a Cube 60 for a stupidly low price and nobody's taken it up. Does that answer the question? ?
Well, I understand how music is related to mathematics, and how IQ tests tend to be loaded in favour of spatial-mathematical reasoning...but I can't believe that musicality (how much is enough? Strumming? Tapping? Arjun Menon?) would round out enough facets of intelligence to make it a fully causal relationship.
True true
that is one way of viewing it but another would be that individuals with higher than the norm intelligence would be drawn to playing an instrument. certianly playing an instrument would not add to intelligence (in the long term nayway).
[deleted]
Well, they could be drawn to, and good at, a lot of things - not just musical instruments?
IceCreamMan
Stratisfear wrote
Well, they could be drawn to, and good at, a lot of things - not just musical instruments?
Yes, agreed...
AlanRatcliffe
High IQ is one thing, Mensa is another. I've always had the feeling that Mensa is more of a "club" where some can make themselves feel superior just by being members, rather than anything meaningful. IQ scores themselves prove nothing more than an ability to score highly on a standardised IQ test.
Musos are a mixed group of people, just like any other, some are above average IQ, some are below. Do a survey of people studying music and you will likely come out with an above-average mean, but then that's only one small slice of the gamut of musicians.
It often seems to me that many of the real standout innovators in music are sadly lacking in even the most basic common sense when it comes to other aspects of their lives (and may even be outright idiots in some respects). Kind of mild idiot savants. ?
[deleted]
And I have
proof that high intelligence doesn't lead to anything musical, necessarily:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20050721063442847C698202
Check out the third paragraph.
? ? ?
IceCreamMan
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
1 . IQ scores themselves prove nothing more than an ability to score highly on a standardised IQ test.
2. It often seems to me that many of the real standout innovators in music are sadly lacking in even the most basic common sense when it comes to other aspects of their lives (and may even be outright idiots in some respects). Kind of mild idiot savants. ?
1. Not true , IQ is correlated with just about every aspect of our lives from how long we live to the propensity of having children out of wedlock etc.
2. There comes a point where high IQ starts counting negatively , a surprising number of high IQ individuals end up in menial jobs. Savants are an interesting field all on their own.
Mensa caters for the INTJ crowd imho and agree with you on the club issue but afaik mensa is the only high iq society operating in ZA (apart from net based orgs)
[deleted]
IceCreamMan wrote
a surprising number of high IQ individuals end up in menial jobs.
Now THERE is a way that high IQ and musicality resemble each other...
[deleted]
Now THERE is a way that high IQ and musicality resemble each other...
Haha. At least we have that.
IQ scores have always intrigued me. It's like some big secret everyone knows except you, except when it's high, then you get to know about it. I have a feeling mine was low because my parents always talked about how high my sister's is. ?
I like to think I have high EQ ?
Ray
To answer the original question, no I am not a member of Mensa. I tried they said goway. Then I tried joining Densa , they said the same.
DonovanB
Intelligence is what you make of it.
I've met very intelligent people who can't hold a conversation. I've met really simple people who whip my ass at scrabble.
Anyone read, " Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance?"
Wizard
Viccy wrote
I like to think I have high EQ ?
Scientific studies have shown that EQ is a better indicator of life success than IQ.
I agree with Alan's comment about Mensa being an elitist club - all the people I've met who are members have really annoyed me.
I haven't tried to join.
I don't think my low EQ could deal with the rejection ?
Conrad
I dunno. Any form of elitism or peepee measuring type of thing is usually time wasted and I always end up chastising myself for not noticing it sooner.
1 out of every 50 people you meet qualify for Mensa but 1 out of how many actually contribute to making a better world? Whatever that theoretical figure is, I am sure most would intuitively say it to be a VERY staggeringly low figure.
Chris Langan has the longest IQ peepee and he is practically a doos from my perspective....one of the most conceited ppl on our dust ball.
MikeM
Donovan Banks wroteAnyone read, " Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance?"
I really want to ?
I don't know my iq but I know I'm in the upper 3rd percentile. I know I am good at maths. I know I have a very good spacial understanding, visualisation. My language skills are to par, I'm not a high achiever and I lack focus.
I'm not sure what the high eq thing is but I do believe that on an essential level all people are equal. Savants are on the extreme end of this, Einstein almost up there (Anyone know his life story? ?). Then I do think there are some exceptions to the rules, but they're few and far between, my favorite example of which is Da Vinci - that man had it all, maths, arts, music, sciences, engineer, mortition, not to mention he was good looking and gifted with the ladies.
Breeze
I can say in all honesty I've known some dof musos but I really don't think their IQ has shit to do with who they are as musicians or what they have to offer.
Some lean toward an intellectual or rational way of thinking while being drawn toward music can often mean something very different.
Sure, when you get into the nitty gritty of theoretical music, it takes a lot of logical understanding and a highly cerebral application, but let's not forget what the real beauty of music is all about - the love and passion of it all, the wales and screams of those drunk with crazed emotion. Some thrash around as though consumed in trance while others are simply so peacefully in a place so far away that you cannot reach them by natural means.
There is a lot about music and the artisans of her magic that relates more to insanity than anything else.
I think what I'm trying to say is that I've alway's classed the "intelligent" and the emotional, creatively adventurous in seperate carriages of the train... whose in the front and whose in the back? Well, let's just say I'm glad I'm me and wouldn't trade my mind in for anyone's.
Keira-WitherKay
well when i moved to jhb initially now almost 2 yrs ago...wow how time flies i shared a house for a year with a m0ther and son who were both members on mensa but boy did they make some silly discisions in everyday life ........ and both seemed socially deprived and becaue of this depressed ..
so if this is what a high IQ sets you up for, i'm happy to be a hippy muso who just wants to get through life on the path of least resistance and find love in music, people and art
singemonkey
Just to mention that it is a popular (comforting?) myth that IQ only relates to how well you test. A combination of IQ results from different tests (a figure psychologists call "g") does correlate more closely with your social and employment life outcomes than any other measurable characteristic.
Saying that... it's a statistical range. I.e., if you have a g score equivalent to a 150 I.Q., you're only more likely not to end up in gaol, or with accidental children, or unemployed, than someone with a score of 90. But that's based on a lot of results. It's a trend. Individually, the person with a 90 I.Q. could quite possibly end up as a millionaire (see one of our prominent politicians whose finances have recently come under scrutiny), while a genius could end up on the street. These are only probabilities, not predestination. In other words, more people with high I.Q.s avoid major calamities and end up successful than people with low I.Q.s, but certainly not all of them.
It's definitely true that some of our guitar heroes are freakin' idiots. I think that's what Nigel Tufnell's character in This is Spinal Tap is all about. Dedication to practise does have a little to do with intelligence, but not that much. You just have to be smart enough to see the pay-off. And taste is not about intelligence - you get plenty of geniuses who have none.
So unless you struggle to add single digit numbers, you're probably in the running.
MENSA does seem a little weird to me. Intelligence for it's own sake? University faculty are by necessity a club of people with high I.Q.s (no matter how foolish some of them may be) because they must use that intelligence daily (or at least until they become professors ?). But getting together to discuss your ability to solve unintuitive problems? It's innate. You can't develop it further. It's almost entirely genetic. My feeling is, forget the club-room. Go out and use it.
Conrad
Just wanted to add that I DO think that societies like Mensa are a GOOD thing. The world would be worse off if gifted individuals had hardly any peers and this I think societies like Mensa offer. It also gives them a sense of belonging and all that is a very good thing. In fact, I would be very happy if governments were to harness these societies more as think tanks. Especially on ethics. Another good thing about them is that the minds seem to feed off of each other and get creative.
The only part I don't agree with and that is somewhat inversely related to the very idea of such an organisation is the peepee measuring syndrome thing.
I hope that makes sense somehow.
IceCreamMan
My second son is a genius in IQ terms(from his mother) . From a very young age he was fascinated by things that blew me away. He was reading nietzche etc at an age where his peers were reading hardy boys. The idea of intelligence was something that i had to come to grips with in order to be able to relate to the lad and give him the best opportunities in life and realise his potential.
I have done a lot of research on IQ in order to try and understand whats going on in his head, its a fascinating subject and unfortunately is considered a dirty concept in todays egalatarian society. pity that because this should be nutured and cherished. Nobel prize winners (cept silly ones like the peace prize) are all high IQ ppl. I read as much on the subject as i can in order to relate to my son and understand him.
Reseach beares out that if we took 2 chaps ,1 with high iq and one with normal iq , the high iq individual will learn to play guitar a lot quicker than the other and this gap will increase over the course of life and not decrease or become equal at any point.(assuming they practice the same amount of hours etc)
I suspect the guitar gods in the world are individuals with higher than norm IQ's. Bach beethoven and the like were not dullards , neither are van halen or beck etc...
my son does not play any musical instrument btw , even though i have tried to get him to play. ?
