Dream Acoustic Guitar Build#1: Cornerstone Zion

racman · 2010-04-15T08:12:53+00:00

A year or three ago I started formulating plans to have a custom Electric as well as a custom Acoustic guitar built for me. Although I researched both for some time (and posted threads on the potential electric build), I also researched Acoustic Guitar Luthiers and eventually built up a list of those that I was interested in. Over the last few months after making my major decision to focus on Acoustic, I narrowed the field down to a shortlist and final selection that has resulted in a now booked build slot that opened up due to a late cancellation in August 2010. The build will take between 6-12 months and will then hopefully result in a three acoustic guitar scenario with the Takamine "workhorse" and the custom build. (although this is subject to change at short norice so I'm not totally committed to the idea! ?) I thought that it may be of interest to some to start a thread from concept discussions excerpts to wood selections and discussions to the final completed build pics with sound samples etc. The commisioned luthier has committed to send regular build progress pics during the build process which I will post. We are currently in the process of wood selection and I have been sent some pics of available tonewoods for back and sides for selection purposes. Others will be sent soon for final consideration. I will post my initial requirement overview sent to a shortlist of 10 luthiers and include their websites details, my selection process as well as the reasons for my selection to start with. Will add next post later in the day ...

racman

Ok, just got confirmation from Peter that he uses Adirondack Spruce for the bracing.

guitarboy2828

Have you mentioned in the previous 12 pages how much a project like this costs?

Man, I would LOVE this.. I need to go back and do some reading through all these posts, many of which are people talking rubbish I'm sure! ?

racman

guitarboy2828 wrote Have you mentioned in the previous 12 pages how much a project like this costs?

Man, I would LOVE this.. I need to go back and do some reading through all these posts, many of which are people talking rubbish I'm sure! ?

Actually if you read the thread from the first post you will find very little or no rubbish. I think you may even find it interesting and informative. ?

I have not detailed the costs as it is a custom build and dependant on ones specs etc. I have however given the links to various Luthier websites that I considered for the build (including Cornerstone Guitars) which have detailed pricing options etc. What I will disclose is that this build will cost about the same as a Colliings SJ/Taylor914 through the SA "dealers" (before discounts) or maybe a little more.

However, the journey is a little longer and a lot more enjoyable and informative etc. Personally I believe I will be getting a stunning and unique guitar with a wood combination and aesthetic that I would never have considered or even thought of at the beginning of the build. I have also gained a little more knowledge on a number of aspects, both from my discussions with Peter as well as from the posts on this thread and forum and the Acoustic guitar forum. All of this I perhaps would not have enjoyed if I had not decided to embark on this "journey".

This particular guitar will have one or two small and subtle personal, unique touches, that I will briefly mention later on, that will hopefully ensure that it is passed on to future generations and will be a talking point. I have not mentioned these as they are of a religious (I prefer to use the term "relationship") nature but I would be more than willing to share with anyone via "pm" or e-mail but will not be discussing on the forum out of respect for others views and beliefs.

Bob-Dubery

I find this quite intriguing because you're essentially buying a guitar sight unseen. Now obviously you have researched this and you can read personal reccomendations, establish that the builder is an ethical and reliable person and so on.... but you've never held the guitar and won't until it arrives here. Have you hands on experience with ANY Cornerstone instruments? You had a short list, so how many of those did you play?

Before I went ahead and ordered a Smoothtalker I'd at least played one. Easier since Mervyn Davis is in Broederstroom rather than an ocean away.

Every now and then I get GAS for something expensive. Usually a Lowden. And you can get recent 2nd hand models at good prices (and especially from the UK where you can knock 17% off of their advertised price as VAT isn't charged if they export, and the pound is not so healthy at the moment) but an alarm bell always rings in my head.

See I was in this shop in Norwich last year. They deal in high-end guitars. I got talking to the proprietor and he let me try a few out. In particular I remember two Lowdens. One was "wow!" and the other was a bit better than that - an "O" with spruce top and rosewood back and sides. That really was a very impressive instrument. Then he pointed to a 3rd Lowden and said "that one's a problem. Not bad really, but not quite as good as the others, not magical. Even Lowden produce a guitar that is not quite as good as the others every now and then."

Since then I've been reluctant to buy without trying.

There's also the question of what happens if it just doesn't work for you. I have nothing particular against Collings, for example, and the construction is superb. But they don't heat up my credit card the way those Lowdens did. One man's meat is another's poison and so on.

So I find your journey here quite interesting. I must add that I am not casting aspersions against the luthier. Everything we see and read here speaks of a man who does high quality work, has good ethics and is in every way professional. I just find it intriguing that you have entered into this contract with out so much as a test drive.

Though this may be the way it has to be for many of us. We simply can't get to try all these guitars before we buy, and yet we have to make a call at some point.

Keira-WitherKay

well i do agree with Bob's post above , i too have travelled the world and tried some really top end guitars that do not to my ears sound any better than a mid priced guitar in tone........... however in finish they always incredible........ but again depends on the player ...... i'd rather play a "dog" visually but with great tone......... and not vice versa........

but yes you know we all have our own ways of seeing this........... and even though part of me sides with Bob.......... but the other part kinda admires racmans mindset that after doing his research and i'm sure for something of this price it's not an impulse buy has decided to place trust or is the word faith in the luthiers skills............ which is quite a refreshing attitude amongst the rest of us pessimists on this topic...... of buying blind

so yeah racman ..... i'm super keen to hear this baby .......... and i can imagine how excited you must be ...........awesome..........

guitarboy2828

racman wrote Actually if you read the thread from the first post you will find very little or no rubbish. I think you may even find it interesting and informative. ?

I have not detailed the costs as it is a custom build and dependant on ones specs etc. I have however given the links to various Luthier websites that I considered for the build (including Cornerstone Guitars) which have detailed pricing options etc. What I will disclose is that this build will cost about the same as a Colliings SJ/Taylor914 through the SA "dealers" (before discounts) or maybe a little more.

That's quite a bit of moola, however, I godda admit, it's pretty cool to have a custom built guitar that you half built. ? Am very eagerly awaiting the results! ?

X-rated Bob wrote I find this quite intriguing because you're essentially buying a guitar sight unseen. Now obviously you have researched this and you can read personal reccomendations, establish that the builder is an ethical and reliable person and so on.... but you've never held the guitar and won't until it arrives here. Have you hands on experience with ANY Cornerstone instruments? You had a short list, so how many of those did you play?

Before I went ahead and ordered a Smoothtalker I'd at least played one. Easier since Mervyn Davis is in Broederstroom rather than an ocean away.

Every now and then I get GAS for something expensive. Usually a Lowden. And you can get recent 2nd hand models at good prices (and especially from the UK where you can knock 17% off of their advertised price as VAT isn't charged if they export, and the pound is not so healthy at the moment) but an alarm bell always rings in my head.

See I was in this shop in Norwich last year. They deal in high-end guitars. I got talking to the proprietor and he let me try a few out. In particular I remember two Lowdens. One was "wow!" and the other was a bit better than that - an "O" with spruce top and rosewood back and sides. That really was a very impressive instrument. Then he pointed to a 3rd Lowden and said "that one's a problem. Not bad really, but not quite as good as the others, not magical. Even Lowden produce a guitar that is not quite as good as the others every now and then."

Since then I've been reluctant to buy without trying.

There's also the question of what happens if it just doesn't work for you. I have nothing particular against Collings, for example, and the construction is superb. But they don't heat up my credit card the way those Lowdens did. One man's meat is another's poison and so on.

So I find your journey here quite interesting. I must add that I am not casting aspersions against the luthier. Everything we see and read here speaks of a man who does high quality work, has good ethics and is in every way professional. I just find it intriguing that you have entered into this contract with out so much as a test drive.

Though this may be the way it has to be for many of us. We simply can't get to try all these guitars before we buy, and yet we have to make a call at some point.

This is a good point, never really thought of it, although I guess to some degree I had. I would never buy an acoustic I haven't played before. But never really saw it that way for a custom made one.. Dunno why, maybe it's just because of the "coolness" factor of having a custom made guitar. ?

racman

Bob, you raise very valid and relevant points which I have mulled over many times before and I must confess, even after I started the process. I welcome the opportunity to have a frank and honest debate and sharing of our views and thought processes. That is after all the essence of what a forum should be, in my opinion.

The fact that it is a huge risk ("gamble" if you like) is correct. Add to this, the fact that I have chosen a wood combination that I have not tried or heard before. Then there is the fact that the Cornerstone Zion is a design that Peter has developed, albeit with a principle focus as a fingerstyle guitar. Now add the fact that Peter will shape the bracing for my requirements in order to tailor make (almost typed Taylor by mistake by that would just be wrong!!! ?) the tone to my application. However, I think Peter or any good Luthier would be modifying the bracing for each particular piece of wood's tonal properties and "tap tone" during the build process, even in the case of the same type of wood. Of course there is the matter of a "sound port" that I have also never experienced. By now you must understandably be asking ...is he NUTS?!!!!

I have found that people's views on me vacillate between "too trusting" and "too skeptical" (so I guess I am well balanced ?). However, I like to generally call it a process of "informed trust". The information needed is really dependent on ones own views on the acceptable risks and rewards, the views of others, communication integrity etc. etc (also not to mention the highly regarded yet under rated: "warm fuzzy feeling" ?)

I had originally planned to travel to the USA and do a road trip to finally select, but sadly this did not materialise. I must also say that there were a few luthiers that I would have embarked on the journey with as well and others I discounted quite early on in the process, not because they were untrustworthy but merely because I did not get the overall sense, all considered, that I would like to pursue the relationship further.

Without going into too much detail and possibly repeat aspects that I stated before (I think in response to Keira), I believe that I am operating in the realm of "acceptable risk" to me. To someone else this may not equate as acceptable risk even if I bored everyone with my entire process details.

In all fairness to Peter and any other Luthier, while I secretly hope to be “blown away” by the complete package (not just the tone), I have tempered my expectations by reminding myself that it will definitely be different to my other acoustics which in itself has achieved the objective.

I must also say that during the entire process so far I have become more and more excited as it is evident that I made the right choice and at the very least I will have a stunningly beautiful guitar that is passionately and expertly crafted. Whether the tone “blows me away” or not, may well be a subjective opinion that is also influenced by the subliminal impacts of the journey and expectations etc not to mention my requirements and tonal preferences in the final analysis. However, this may not be the impression that others have which I expect may well be the case, and I’m OK with that as well as I am having the guitar built for ME, but would really be interested to hearing everyone’s opinions when we have the “reveal” at X-stock 10.

My apologies for the long post/reply… ? (I see a few more replies while I was drafting this lengthy one as well ? ?)

singemonkey

The fact that it's yours and unique will count for a lot as well.

racman

I would greatly appreciate and be honored if the final "reveal" has as many guitars evident as possible. Not as a way of proving which is better or not but as a gathering of admirers of the guitar as an an instrument and celebrating the tonal properties and differences (there is no BAD guitar, but there are badly played guitars ?). It would be great if someone could assist with some basic recordings of the day as well, but that is still a long away away .........

And after that ... the Bashkin build starts

And after that ..... I'm done!!!!

I think ? ? ?

Keira-WitherKay

racman wrote
And after that ... the Bashkin build starts

And after that ..... I'm done!!!!

I think ? ? ?

hehhehehe yeah very unlikely ........ but thats the joy of loving guitars .we see beauty in so many .......... rather say this is just the beginning .......... still many luthiers talents to explore and appreciate

racman

Just received the latest pics of the sides being bent - I still can't believe the figure on that Sapele !!! 8) 8)

MikeM

True to South Africa.... YOH ?

racman

The building of the Florentine cutaway:

Peter has indicated that the soundboard bracing will still have more work done on it to finish the "voicing" of the top. All indications at present are that the top is a decent stiffness and will make an awesome sounding guitar!! ?

racman

Latest progress update ?:

infernox

How the heck do they actually bend it like that?

racman

Starting to take shape now - some kerfing in place now as well:

[deleted]

Racman, that is looking AMAZING!! ?

infernox wrote How the heck do they actually bend it like that?

racman

Thx Brent, I think it will really start getting interesting soon as the "box" is assembled and we get to see the final voicing of the top bracing etc ? ?

racman

Back bracing done ?

zohn

That backplate looks good Racman!
The contrasting radius-ed spruce centre strip is always such a nice touch when one peeps through the sound hole.
?

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