I'm blown away

Banditman

Being up in the gangsters' paradise this week I went to some of my favourite toy shops to try out some new gear, specifically some Tokais to see what the fuss was about. Had a go on an LS90 & Chinese ES at Marshall, then met Lance at Andy McGibbons to try out the flame top 95s & 150 gold top in stock. Looked over the ES185 he's got hidden in the safe.

I'm really blown away.

Straight off the shelf, no issues. The LS'es played easily as well as my Les Paul - apart from the plastic "nibs" over the fret ends, I'd have never known I wasn't playing a Gibson. The ES185 is a match for my friend's early '90s Gibson ES335 in both tone & quality. I see what those in the know have said about the extra non-relieved weight on the LS, but it's nothing unbearable. Playability & tone on the Love Rocks I played were great, construction was lovely. I couldn't fault a thing regarding the pickups - as standard they don't need replacing at all (sorry Seymour). The price is still hard to believe considering how much you're getting for the money. As for the ES60, I still can't believe it's a Chinese guitar equal to an Epiphone. It sounded and played a lot better than quite a few Epi ES-es I've tried before. Stuart at Marshall Woodmead used one at the battle of the bands the other night & said he got good feedback from a few of the cognoscenti.

Unfortunately there wasn't an LS95S (with the P90s like Aubs & Alan's) to try out - that's the one I'm really interested in, but going by what I've played today I know the quality won't be an issue.

Honest opinion of a died-in-the-wool Gibson fan? If you're after a G-type guitar & don't have the deficit of Malawi, at least try one of the Love Rocks. It's at least the equal in all but headstock logo. Just do it before the prices go up when everyone catches on. Shot for your time today, Lance.

Tokai-SA

Hi Steve

It was good to meet you.
Sorry I couldn't stick around a bit longer at Andy's, but I think I left you in his capable hands. ?

Did you get to plug in and play at Andy's?

Have a safe trip back to East London.

Banditman

Hey Lance.

Yes, tried the 95 flame top & the 150 goldtop, ran them through the Vox in Andy's amp room. Having read Alan's Muse review I see what he meant about the tonal difference between the 90/95 and 150 series.

I think what strikes me the most is the consistancy in the examples I've seen & played this week (4 LS90/95s, an LS150, two ES60s & that stunning ES185). As has been said, Tokai have been making guitars in large numbers for a long time (including the Fender Japan stuff for Fender). Considering how consistantly good in terms of quality & out the box playability the Tokais are it's a real indictment of many other manufacturers.

Nothing's stopping the two big fave USA companies from making instruments this way except themselves. If Tokai can do it then so should they. Fair enough, they're building a rep which is one reason the prices can be lower, but take price out of the picture & there's no reason or excuse for the US-made stuff to lag the way it does. The fact that the Love Rocks sound, feel & play just like good Les Pauls should speak volumes. It's not that they're somehow a superior evolution of the LP, but that they're what Gibson's 35 grand electrics should be like every time. If I was going to drop Gibson Custom shop money on a guitar which I'd want to possibly resell one day, then I'd probably worry about the "investment" angle of the name. At the LP Standard/LS 90- 150 level I doubt I'd care once the angles are considered.

Will drop you a line once I'm back home. Thanks again for your time man.

singemonkey

Banditman wrote:
Fair enough, they're building a rep which is one reason the prices can be lower, but take price out of the picture & there's no reason or excuse for the US-made stuff to lag the way it does.

Even that's not too much of an excuse Banditman. Tokai have been building their rep like this since 1978. At any point during that time, Gibson could have given us vintage style Les Pauls/SGs/335s at reasonable prices (say, 25% more than Tokai), but they've simply gone with the share-holders, not the players. They started producing those guitars, but made them "special" and charged 3 times as much as Tokai.

The fact that the Love Rocks sound, feel & play just like good Les Pauls should speak volumes. It's not that they're somehow a superior evolution of the LP, but that they're what Gibson's 35 grand electrics should be like every time. If I was going to drop Gibson Custom shop money on a guitar which I'd want to possibly resell one day, then I'd probably worry about the "investment" angle of the name. At the LP Standard/LS 90- 150 level I doubt I'd care once the angles are considered.

Yup. There's probably no reason why people will stop paying this premium for custom shop Gibsons. They are, of course, wonderful guitars. But the price is insane - far more expensive, in fact, than the 50's Les Pauls were back in their day. And as far as investment is concerned, it's all about how well the value holds up. Like all guitars, including Gibson custom shops, there's a drop when you take it out of the shop. The question is how much further it drops thereafter. Since lots of people want a Tokai LS150, the fact that it's 10 years old, you still compare it to the price of a new one. You don't go, "Oh. It's 10 years old, give it to me for R1,000." That's the same story as with a custom shop. A '98 custom shop Gibson isn't worth more than a new one. It hasn't appreciated. It's just held value.

And in the same way that old Gibsons have appreciated, early 80's Tokais stun people who can't understand why people would pay thousands of dollars for a Gibson clone. So I suspect that they have a similar chance of maintaining, or appreciating in value as a custom shop Gibson. Both guitars will only increase in value if there's a marked drop in quality of the currant models. Otherwise, both will drop a bit walking out of the shop, and then hold their value.