a question re removing necks on classical guitars for the tech's out there

Keira-WitherKay

hi ya all, in my collection of guitars ........ i'm finding i favour the neck and feel of my old 40 yr guitar but like the sound as in full loud tone of a 30 yr old classical guitar ....... now the question is ........ is it possible to remove the neck from one and attatch it to the body of the other ........ to me it's just the glued joint and being similar models both G series yamaha although they 10 yrs apart age wise hopefully the kind of joint is similar .........

cos my reality is i would love to make a hybrid and take the best features of both and have them in one guitar .........

and i have heard necks can be reset on a classical which surely means unglueing em and reassembly ........

so is this possible? or should i just be happy to compromise and keep searching for the perfect balnce between feel and tone

Bob-Dubery

It won't be pretty - but that probably is not an issue for you.

One of the difference between cheap and expensive guitars is this: With the cheap guitar they assemble it completely and then spray it. So you get a whole load of finish around the neck joint - which must be damaged if you want to remove the neck. With pricier instruments they spray the body, spray the neck and then assemble - so you can separate neck and body without damaging the finish.

Possible pitfalls.
1) Different scale lengths. So you swap the neck and now the bridge is in the wrong position and the guitar won't intonate accurately.
2) The joints will cut differently on the two guitars - you won't know that until you remove both necks. A good tech will be able to patch things up - but it makes the job longer and more expensive.
3) SOme of the tone you enjoy may be attributable to the neck. So when you swap necks tone may change.

AlanRatcliffe

Good info Bob. Different scale lengths isn't really an issue with most nylons though.

Another possible difficulty is the modern epoxy glues used by the more modern builders. These have a much higher melting point than the traditional hide and carpenter's glues, making it far more difficult to remove the neck.

Gearhead

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Another possible difficulty is the modern epoxy glues used by the more modern builders.

With all due respect and all, do you really think a Japanese guit from 1980 will have epoxy joints? ? I seem to recall there were two brands at the time, the one expensive and the other more expensive....

AlanRatcliffe

Good point and I'm actually not sure ? That's why I said "possible problem". A lot of the Japanese manufacturers like Matsumoku were using modern glues in the 70's already, but I'm not sure about Yamaha.

Keira-WitherKay

ok i have a question yet again .........

i checked the scale length purly by holding 2 guitars against each other and the nuts and bridges seem to line up... so i think that prob is not there......

BUT and heres my question both guitars have same d addarrio pro atres on them yet the 230 seems tighter as in higher tension than the 120 why would that be and they both tuned to Eb .....? the 120 has a softer feel on the strings ....which is normally associated with a longer scale length but to my eye they identical or within a mm or 2 max of each other .

and last question i think to me the comfort of the neck of the 120 (which is my main gig guitar these days) is that it has the traditional fat round classical profile on the neck where the more uncomfortable neck has a flattened profile.......

so question number 2 would it be possible to somehow fatten the neck profile of the 230 ... the width is fine just it has a more modern hybrid flattened shape to the back of the neck ..........

i was thinking if the current neck is maybe shaved down on the back ( opposite side to fretboard ) and another piece of wood shaped to fit over the top then the glued to it then the luthier can reshape the neck to the traditional fat classical profile..... ,

would this be possible and less difficult that replacing the necks completely ....as i'm quite happy to only get one functional guitar out of the two if that transpires ...

all this effort is that i have 2 guitars which offers me everything i look for in guitars for my needs...... and the problem being one has the tone and the other the feel of neck i like ..........

so frustrating but exciting too cos maybe a small/big job to somehow sort this problem and somehow get the right feel of the neck .......could give me my 'perfect" guitar for negligable expense even if the luthier charges a wack......... the total cost would be considerably less than a luthiers total build

and every luthier cannot gaurentee that the guitar would sound like what i like even if i showed him the guitar i like the tone of .........as the tone of the guitar being built from scratch would be kinda hit and miss till after the build .........and all i can be promised is an approximation of the tone due to the woods used .... but all acoustics even from same luthier have different tones even when made to identical design .......... and i have even been told that to my face by a luthier , so rather the devil i know........

AlanRatcliffe

Keira WitherKay wrote BUT and heres my question both guitars have same d addarrio pro atres on them yet the 230 seems tighter as in higher tension than the 120 why would that be and they both tuned to Eb .....?

Chances are, they are identical scales. Especially same era from the same manufacturer. I'd guess that the thicker neck is playing with your perception of the tension (or possibly a different action at the nut).

so question number 2 would it be possible to somehow fatten the neck profile of the 230
Not really practical - they may be the same width at the fingerboard, but the slimmer profile starts affecting the radius right after the fingerboard. Also no way of telling what tonal differences you'd get from doing this - the neck is a pretty crucial link in the chain.

So safer just to use them for what they are and keep on looking for the "perfect" guitar for you (or have one made). Keep an eye out for the GD10 or GD20 handmade Yamahas, they are the traditional concert size necks and as good as Yamaha have ever made - I think you'd like them. Actually, If you ever find a Takamine Hirade H8 and don't love it, I'd happily swap my GD20 for one. ?

Keira-WitherKay

Alan Ratcliffe wrote If you ever find a Takamine Hirade H8 and don't love it, I'd happily swap my GD20 for one. ?

i'll hold you to that alan ....... ?

since to date i've played on some high end takamines and just never found one with the "tone" i like..... which is rich round tops (never sharp) with a big fat warm bass on the 6th string and then an even balance from the 1st to 6th string .... although i see most nylons these days apart from some ramirez's which i love have a thinner more sharp sound but very articulate ....which modern players seem to like........

but i'm a dinasour and i just like that dated sound which i see as more traditional......

and yeah i'm on the look out for the GD range of yamaha's just one does not find em except new.........think they so good most players will find all they ever need in it ....so they never get sold 2nd hand ............if i recall you only got yours (which at the time i also wanted to buy it was offered at an incredibly low price) it was from that classical musician who passed away ... but yeah if i find a tak like you want the deal is on.... ?

AlanRatcliffe

Keira WitherKay wrote i'll hold you to that alan ....... ?

Please do!

I love the Tak Hirades and prefer their faster attack and articulation over the Yamaha's volume and warmer, rounder tone. Both great guitars, but different. The Tak seems to lean a little more towards being a Flamenca Negra and likes the Savarez strings more than the Yamaha (which seems to sound best with Pro-Artes and, of all things, Augustine Blues!). The Yammy would be a better guitar with a pickup (IMO). Ironically the Yammy was almost a Hirade! It was an insurance replacement for an H8. ?

i just like that dated sound which i see as more traditional......

Unusual statement, seeing as your playing is anything but...

if i recall you only got yours (which at the time i also wanted to buy it was offered at an incredibly low price) it was from that classical musician who passed away ...

I did actually recommend his widow sell it for more, but she wanted to thank me for helping her sell his other stuff and also wanted it to go to someone who she knew would use it.

Keira-WitherKay

thanks for the responce guys.......... but it's now a moot point ......... cos someone made me an offer for the nylon which has the good tone and i let it go.since the feel was all wrong for me...... and in fact strangely enough i felt strain on my hand when i played it ....despite the action being quite low (left hand that is) where my other 4 yamaha classicals don't ... the neck had an odd profile.... so i decided to let it go rather than stress over it ...and there was no ways i could ever play a guitar that somehow strained my hand not the amount of time i perform /rehearse /teach .... so it's back to the one with the perfect feel but slightly less tone( cos the other one was definitely a good 30% louder than my 40 yr old one and the tone was similar but the added volume helped make it sound huge unplugged which i liked ) ............ and so the search continues............. thanks again for the input