Roland Virtual Soundcanvas (SC-88) vs external sound modules

Riaan-Combrink

Hi guys.

This post is inspired by Rene's ad for his Roland Sound Canvas (SC-55) Midi Sound Module in MusicAds (which I understand is sold!).

In my live set-up (i.e. playing pubs, restaurants, with midi backtracks via Cakewalk Pro 9), I use Roland Virtual Soundcanvas (SC-88) [think the XP-version is called VSC-3] WITHOUT an external midi sound module. As Virtual Soundcanvas (VSC) ships with Cakewalk and many similar programs, I know a stack of musos using the same set-up on the Cape Town circuit. Check out the basics of VSC at the link below:

http://www.pgmusic.com/rolandvs.htm

I find the convenience of having the 'sound module' on-board, so to speak, great. As far as my ear is concerned, the VSC renders the midi instruments to sound pretty real. Recently, however, one of the top guys on our circuit told me I'd get far better sound using an external sound module.

My question is thus directed at the guys who have experience of midi sound modules and VSC in the live context. I get that there may be a difference in the clinical environment of the studio, but is there a noticeable difference live? As I've never used an external sound module, I'm not even comparing apples and oranges here! Would appreciate any advice ...

Thanks

Riaan C

AlanRatcliffe

I use nothing but softsynths these days and VSC is one of my meat-and-potatoes synths - kind of what the Canvasses have always been (I used an SC-55 MKII for years).

The main things in any synth, soft or hardware, are the D/A converters - usually one of the main differences between the cheaper and the more expensive synths in a range. If you have a quality soundcard, you more than likely have quality D/A already, and one which will probably be much better than something like the SC-88 has.

Obviously a synth's built-in soundset also makes a difference, especially with the sampled sound modules like the Canvases. Any synth that tries to be a little of everything like a Canvas is going to suffer in comparison to something that is dedicated to a few sounds, but it has the vast advantage of having many more sounds.

I think Rene will agree with me that the sequencing is far more important to getting a good sound than the synth and even the best synth can sound bad if the programming is not up to snuff. When I was gigging with a Canvas I invested in some really good pro MIDI files which were amazing. On top of having really good backing when I played covers, I learned a lot on how to get great sounds out of a modest rig by layering and using various instruments out of their natural range (like using guitars in the bass register, which are often closer to the recorded tone than the generic bass sounds).

So, IMO: to improve on something like a Canvas, you would have to invest in either a few different softsynths or a top of the line hardware model with a few expansion boards, each dedicated to a different style of music.

Mr-M

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: So, IMO: to improve on something like a Canvas, you would have to invest in either a few different softsynths or a top of the line hardware model with a few expansion boards, each dedicated to a different style of music.

Actually there is something that improves drastically on the Roland sounds.
It's from Native Instruments and it's called Bandstand. Basically a GM player with the Sound Engine from Kontakt 2 and some very good samples.
http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=bandstand

Had a demonstration of it 2 years ago at Turnkey and I was very impressed.

Sound on Sound Review:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may06/articles/nibandstand.htm

Renesongs

I used The Roland SC55 for professional productions for about 12 years. When the Yamaha XG and Roland VSC-88 soft synths came out I was initially excited because they could handle 64 note polyphony as opposed to my SC55's 24 note polyphony (a harp strum will show up the difference). Some of the instruments on soft synth even sounded better. But when push came to shove I was always more confident of overall sound of the SC55, less tiny somehow.

It was only when Edirol (a subsidiary of Roland) brought out The HQ series, Orchestrator, Power Quartet, and Hypercanvas that my SC55 was totally outgunned. IMO there is just no question about using external sound modules anymore unless, like the guy who bought my SC55, you are using a keyboard not a computer to drive your sound.

BTW if you grade up to Sonar it comes with Cakewalk TTS which is a re branded Edirol Hypercanvas and the Hypercanvass is like the VSC-88 on steroids - much much better than an outboard motor. ?

AlanRatcliffe

Actually there is something that improves drastically on the Roland sounds.
It's from Native Instruments and it's called Bandstand.

Strangely enough, in an admittedly brief trial, Bandstand didn't give me enough of an improvement over the VSC sounds to justify the big jump in system resources. Maybe I should reinstall and give it another try.

Mr-M

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Strangely enough, in an admittedly brief trial, Bandstand didn't give me enough of an improvement over the VSC sounds to justify the big jump in system resources. Maybe I should reinstall and give it another try.

I did'nt A/B them and I wasn't specifically looking for it, I just happened to be there for the demo, so maybe I bought into the sales-pitch?
What I heard just seemed much better than what I've heard from the VSC (a mate uses it for his one man band cover shows). The SOS review says that the samples come from some high-profile sample-makers, so I could have heard right!
If you do re-install it I would be interested to know your thoughts and also to make sure I'm not crazy!

Riaan-Combrink

Thanks for all the informative replies, guys. Learnt a lot.

Would seem I should finally make the upgrade to Sonar (and get the TTS in the deal). I'm quite conservative with these things and tend to stick in my comfort zone. But I remember Alan saying in one of his previous posts that the Sonar / Cakewalk 9 interface is pretty similar, so should take the plunge.

Will also experiment with the instrument ranges, as suggested.

Really grateful for the guidance, guys.

Cheers for now

Riaan C