Nice price for a Love Rock?

Gearhead · 2010-02-27T20:04:38+00:00

Is 380 Euro a good price? Just saw a cream/gold on black one brand spanking new in a shop. Nicely set up, shame on me for not cutting my nails. Would have li...

Nice price for a Love Rock?

AlanRatcliffe

Just to clarify a point here - while there are only a few differences in hardware (tailpiece, caps, pots) between an LS150 like yours (which is basically the equivalent of the R9, IINM) and the less expensive Japanese LS90 (equivalent to the LP Standard), a telling point I noticed is the difference in wood quality. Not only does the 150 have a one-piece back (oppose to the 3-piece of the LS90), but it was easily a full pound or more lighter and more resonant/vibrant. The LS90 can be upgraded a little, but would never quite be the LS150.

Having said that, the LS 90 is still very impressive. There are areas where Tokai could have skimped but didn't - the same pickups, bridge, tuners, etc. as the LS150, as well as the same quality construction and setup. So while the LS150 edges it out on overall tone and weight, the LS90 is definitely far better value for money.

Tokai-SA

singe - The LS540 would retail in SAfrica for about R 90,000.00...about R 60,000.00 after store discount.

Alan - true about the LS90 VS LS150.
Just one correction...the LS150 has an aluminium tailpiece and brass saddles, also CTS pots, Switchcraft switches, and Sprague Orange drop capacitor...the LS90 will have Japanese "Gotoh" hardware and Japanese made switches.

sean - ahaa, I get it now. ?

singemonkey

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Just to clarify a point here - while there are only a few differences in hardware (tailpiece, caps, pots) between an LS150 like yours (which is basically the equivalent of the R9, IINM) and the less expensive Japanese LS90 (equivalent to the LP Standard), a telling point I noticed is the difference in wood quality. Not only does the 150 have a one-piece back (oppose to the 3-piece of the LS90), but it was easily a full pound or more lighter and more resonant/vibrant. The LS90 can be upgraded a little, but would never quite be the LS150.

Having said that, the LS 90 is still very impressive. There are areas where Tokai could have skimped but didn't - the same pickups, bridge, tuners, etc. as the LS150, as well as the same quality construction and setup. So while the LS150 edges it out on overall tone and weight, the LS90 is definitely far better value for money.

Innerestin'. When are your reviews coming out? ?

The LS150 is probably a little more like the R8 because all the LS150s have plain tops (although I just discovered last night that there's this very faint "secret" flame that you can only see from a certain angle. Sunburst LPs rock ?). So it's not just that the wood is one piece vs. two pieces vs. three pieces? They're presumably selecting lighter woods for the higher end models. The resonance on that guitar is certainly beyond anything I've heard in a Les Paul before, but I haven't played any Custom Shop VOS Gibsons yet.

Reinhard

Tokai SA wrote: singe - The LS540 would retail in SAfrica for about R 90,000.00...about R 60,000.00 after store discount.

Alan - true about the LS90 VS LS150.
Just one correction...the LS150 has an aluminium tailpiece and brass saddles, also CTS pots, Switchcraft switches, and Sprague Orange drop capacitor...the LS90 will have Japanese "Gotoh" hardware and Japanese made switches.

sean - ahaa, I get it now. ?

60k? My word that is a lot of money for one guitar. That is vintage guitar territory.

AlanRatcliffe

Reinhard wrote: 60k? My word that is a lot of money for one guitar. That is vintage guitar territory.

Not Gibson vintage territory. Have you seen the prices on the new Gibson custom guitars like the Pearly Gates or the Mike Bloomfield? +/- $15K - and that's in country of origin! Put shipping, dealer markup and VAT on those and you're probably looking at R150K RRP. The top of the line hollowbody Citation is more than double that.

Anyway, I think Tokai know the upper end of the market is almost entirely collectors and for those guys it is a case of "Only a Gibson is Good Enough", because for them it truly is more about what's on the headstock than what it plays/sounds like. So Tokai have those models so they can have a complete range and to showcase what they can really do when price is no object. Tokai's main thrust is getting great instruments in the hands of players at comparatively affordable prices - a market I think the big G has neglected for decades.

Reinhard

For 60K I'd get a vintage LP junior, or later 60's ES 335, 345, 330 etc.
The 15K pearlies etc are the really limited ones signed by BG himself, the VOS ones are a LOT cheaper, but I guess we are back at the same point again: If you want a high end guitar, import it yourself. Sure you don't get to play it first, but there are actually dealers that will give you tone reports on the guitars you are interested in. Even if you do get to try a 60K guitar locally first, how many will be in stock for you to truly pick the best one? Just a thought.

singemonkey

Let's be clear about the usual distinction: Any price sounds grotesquely high when you're looking at SA retail prices. If you bought the Tokai in Japan, you could get it for comfortably under R40K. That top of the range Tokai with the AAAA solid flame top that I posted a picture of? Brand new right now: 394,000 Yen - R32,248. Cheaper than a new R9 bought in the USA.

There's a big problem on these discussions when we compare SA retail price for Tokai with US retail price for Gibson. The difference starts to vanish. Let's see what happens when we do it the other way around, shall we?

In Japan, a Tokai LS150 (R8 equivalent) can be had for R12K with the plastic still on the pickguard. And a Gibson R8 bought through take2 will cost you R46,302. Thirty four thousand rand sounds like quite a price for a different name on a headstock and some fret-end nibs, wouldn't you say?

http://more.take2.co.za/moreusa-gibson-1958-les-paul-plain-top-vos-electric-guitar-ice-tea-b000vtmc10.html

It's a ridiculous comparison.

And when we start comparing SA retail prices for Tokai with second hand prices for Gibson, things can get stupid. It actually starts to look like high end Tokais can cost more than VOS Gibsons. Not true.

Apples with apples.

We can't expect Tokais to have a lower markup in SA than other instruments, surely? That's bananas. These are, unfortunately, the (insane in my opinion) economics of the SA retail industry. MusicMadness was selling an LS150 at R16K - a totally acceptable price given shipping and markup. That can be compared against the R42K for a start.

Nobody will pay local retail prices for a Tokai LS470. Nor, if they have much sense, will they pay that money for a VOS Gibson, since it would be cheaper to fly to the USA and bring one back.

Reinhard

Singemonkey you are talking a lot of sense. I don't see the point of buying any high end gear in SA to be honest. The custom shop strats at marshall music are crazy expensive, but if you end up getting a squier like I did, it's not worth the hassle of importing (just an example). I don't want people to hear the prices of gear locally and decide they can never get their dream guitar. Well I have harped on long enough about importing stuff yourself to save a load of cash, in future I'll just shut up ( I just don't want people to pay a fortune locally like I did, only to find out later you can do much better). Ok, now I will REALLY shut up lol :-[

vic

Reinhard wrote: For 60K I'd get a vintage LP junior, or later 60's ES 335, 345, 330 etc.
The 15K pearlies etc are the really limited ones signed by BG himself, the VOS ones are a LOT cheaper, but I guess we are back at the same point again: If you want a high end guitar, import it yourself. Sure you don't get to play it first, but there are actually dealers that will give you tone reports on the guitars you are interested in. Even if you do get to try a 60K guitar locally first, how many will be in stock for you to truly pick the best one? Just a thought.

I fully agree.For 60K I would want to buy an instrument that would hold its value at least.

IceCreamMan

singemonkey wrote: I'm planning on writing an article for the forum detailing the most important stuff I've learned about these guitars from patient internet time-wastage 8)

And you did, about 6 years later ?

singemonkey

I'll get to elite level at procrastination.

... one of these days.