Crazy Cricket

[deleted] · 2010-02-24T14:51:06+00:00

Did anyone just witness Tendulkars 200 in an ODI against the Proteas? Crazy... But ja, good old boring Indian wickets again... (For the cricket purists) I always say "The day Sehwag and Tendulkar hit a double hundred, in a test on South African soil.... I'll drink the Indian Ocean" It's just not cricket if its so one sided. Poor bowlers... and I am/was a batsman... Anyway, I'm just shocked ?

chris77

I also reckon Tendulkar is helped a bit by playing mostly on the friendly sub-continent pitches. Still a good player though, just not sure if he will make my world XI if they play on a sporting wicket. My favourite cricketer is currently Sehwag. He can destroy an atack in Eden Gardens and Lords, Sabina Park to the MCG. Amazing player, and a real laid back character as well. Kallis is better than his reputation. The day he retires we will be K@kstraat for sure... Favourite players of all time? Brian Lara and Steve Waugh.

Bob-Dubery

chris77 wrote I also reckon Tendulkar is helped a bit by playing mostly on the friendly sub-continent pitches. Still a good player though, just not sure if he will make my world XI if they play on a sporting wicket.

I think that debate is long over. Tendulkar has played great knocks all over the world - including some fantastic performances in Australia. I would agree that there are some Asian players who do significantly better at home but SRT ain't one of them. Oddly, and despite a fantastic knock at Newlands some years ago, South Africa was a bit of a blot on his record - but he's sorted that out now.

Heath

Well we are offically having our a**es handed to us ....... Let's hope they calm down and actually win this game

chris77

Looks like you're right. Googled his avg. home and away and its bloody impressive both ways. So my opinion seems to be based more on perception than fact. That said, I still wouldnt pick him for my world XI. Opening will be Sehwag and Smith, with Ponting at three. 4 goes to Kallis and 5 to Clarke. Six is Collingwood and seven Dhoni. Bowlers are Steyn, Morkel, Murali and Johnson. Dhoni to keep and Collingwood, Clarke and Kallis to chip in with a few overs each.

Sean

You would pick Smith for your world XI *Edit* ? ...okay...and the reason?

chris77

Patriotism... and he averages over 50 home and away and has that never say die attitude that makes good players into great ones. After readmission we had that "uhmm, sorry to bother and be a nuissance, but would you mind if we play as well?" nice guy attitude that won hearts but lost matches. Under Smith we managed to drop that Jannie Jammergat houding and have actually played our best cricket since the seventies. If Smith comes of we win more often than not, simple as that. My captain would be Ponting, not Smith - but why would you NOT choose him?

[deleted]

Sean wrote You would pick Smith for your world XI ? ...okay...and the reason?

My most hated question...

I'll always ask the question back.. You tell me why not? Usually can't get an answer cause those who don't rate Smith as a cricketer, know NOTHING about cricket :-\

Sorry... but credit must be given where it is due...

Just so you know He was recently put in the Proteas All Time XI... and still has another 6 years of good cricket in him! Is that not enough? Stats NEVER lie...
And He is actually a hellava nice bloke on top of that!

check out www.cricinfo.com and spend some time there before we judge

[deleted]

Sad that Kallis and Smith are probably more respected and loved around the world (Especially India) than in there own country..

Nothing is ever good enough for Saffas. We spoilt with the best rugby and cricketers on Earth and still find all the faults!!!!

tisk tisk

Bob-Dubery

Brentcgp wrote Wow thats cool! Yeah but Graeme Pollock was an inspiring player. Richie Beanuad says the same thing as Clive Rice. ?.
But I think Barry Richards got bored... Thats why he would do something stupid... And he only played 4 tests! average of 72.5

The great players all have a ruthless streak in them as well. Getting bored doesn't come into it - you take the runs and wickets that are there. Any sportsman should know that there are occasions when the game gets the better of you, so when you get the chance you take it. This is especially true for batting in cricket. Donald Bradman only got a ton every third time he batted. These days if you got a ton in one out of five innings (on average) you'd be called the greatest player on earth - but 80% of the time you would not have got the job done.

Donald Bradman once said that he wasn't the best player of his time or any time. The interviewer expressed surprise. Bradman named some other players and said "they were better than me." The interviewer, thinking Bradman was being a little too modest, pointed out that those players didn't average 99.something in Test cricket. Bradman said "well they were better than me, but they kept on getting out."

This is what Rice was referring to. Pollock was often a poor starter, but once he got going his plan was to keep going on and on and on. I think the best batsmen all have that hunger, that determination.

And it counts. When Matthew Hayden got what was then the world record score the press quickly made a meal of the fact that he got it against Zimbabwe. In a press conference Ponting said something like "well you'll have noticed how often batsmen are making triple hundreds against Zimbabwe". Ponting was right. Sure it was a pop gun attack, but you still had to have the drive to keep on scoring.

Bob-Dubery

Stratisfear wrote I remember watching Pollock bat, at Kingsmead, in the twilight of his career. The ground would be abuzz when he came out to bat (before readmission and the excitement of international cricket reduced attendance at domestic matches). By that stage in his career, he just stood and tonked the ball into the stands at will. He didn't bother running. This is, of course, in stark contrast to the beginning of his career, where he just stood and tonked the ball into the stands at will... I'd also choose that guy, for sheer entertainment value.

Pollock was a fabulous player. I only saw him late in his career, when he was past his best, but he was still pretty amazing. His timing was so good. He never seemed to hit the ball hard at all. He'd just sort of stroke at it. Then it would rocket into the advertising boards with a mighty thud and without the fielders even moving.

Bob, the game has lost most of its characters (viz WG Grace hiding the ball in his beard). All we could muster of late is Andre Nel... Hahahaha.

Yes... but it's a general thing in sports these days. Not many characters. Soccer seems to have a percentage of crass idiots - but that's not the same as being a character.

I don't recall Grace hiding the ball in his beard. There was one instance where a bowler was alleged to have put the ball through the famous beard. That's probably just legend. What is certain is that the ball once lodged in his shirt and Grace ran an implausible number of runs. Grace was a big man and notoriously argumentative and provocative. It would have taken a brave fielder to try to extricate the ball from within his clothing, and besides Grace would have complained about being obstructed. HE wasn't going to take the thing out either - arguing that if he'd done so the fielding side would have appealed for handling the ball (he was probably right - if you had a chance of getting Grace out by any means then you took it).

Grace was batting when his first child was born. At the end of the over a telegram boy ran out onto the field and gave the great man the news. He called over the umpires and the opposing captain, showed them the telegram and asked if lunch might be taken early. He then bought everybody (including the umpires) cigars and champagne, had a couple of whiskeys (not that unusual - he often had whiskey at lunch) and then announced that he was in the mood for a celebration, went back out and got a double hundred.

Grace's reputation for defying umpires is a bit overdone. He didn't get up to those kind of blatant antics in serious matches. However he would sometimes decide that he wasn't out in lesser matches - especially if it was a benefit match for a professional player. He knew what his presence was worth to an old pro who needed the money for his retirement (there are posters that survive. "Grand cricket match at Bladder Meadows this Wednesday. Admission 3d - 6d if Dr Grace is batting) and so if he got out a bit too early on he might decide that it would be a good thing if he wasn't actually out. Unusually for a "gentleman" Grace was very appreciative of the lot of the professional player and valued them highly. And so he should - though ostensibly an amateur he was making vastly more from the game than any professional player was.

And nobody would be talking about Grace's gamesmanship if he wasn't a great player - which he unquestionably was, and, in his prime, by several country miles. He got his 50th ton in his 11th season - which doesn't sound that amazing today. But you had to take the records of the next 13 best players and add them together to get another 50 tons over the same time period. He was that far ahead of his contemporaries. That is why I argue that he's the only batsman you can really put up against Bradman.

[deleted]

My favorite story of Grace is: ?

Once in an exhibition match given out leg-before, he refused to walk and told the umpire: "They came to watch me bat, not you bowl". And the innings continued. Rumor has it! ?

The best WG Grace sledge was on him, though, not from him. Charles Kortright had dismissed him four or five times in a county game - only for the umpires to keep turning down his appeals. Finally, he uprooted two of Grace's three stumps. Grace stalled, as though waiting for a no-ball call or something, before reluctantly walking off with Kortright's words in his ears: " Surely you're not going, doctor? There's still one stump standing."

The books on cricket sledges are some of the best reads! What a game ?

Bob-Dubery

Brentcgp wrote My favorite story of Grace is: ?

Once in an exhibition match given out leg-before, he refused to walk and told the umpire: "They came to watch me bat, not you bowl". And the innings continued. Rumor has it! ?

There are stories like that - but see above, most of them in exhibition or benefit matches. Whilst Grace was not above going eyeball to eyeball with an umpire, he didn't indulge in outright defiance in serious matches.

The best WG Grace sledge was on him, though, not from him. Charles Kortright had dismissed him four or five times in a county game - only for the umpires to keep turning down his appeals. Finally, he uprooted two of Grace's three stumps. Grace stalled, as though waiting for a no-ball call or something, before reluctantly walking off with Kortright's words in his ears: " Surely you're not going, doctor? There's still one stump standing."

There's a whole build up to that event. Kortright was probably the best fast bowler in England, possibly in the world at the time. He had a lot of respect for Grace, but there were limits. Kortright played for Essex, and the match in question took place in Essex. Grace didn't have much of an opinion of Essex or anything that came out of that county. He had systematically and gleefully rubbed the home side the wrong way from the moment he arrived for that match. Essex were also of the opinion that the old man had been cheating - he had, amongst other things, claimed a low catch off his own bowling when the umpire was unsighted, Grace being between umpire and batsman with his back to the umpire.

Kortright was pretty pissed off, and he gave Grace a very hard time indeed. It's worth pointing out that Grace was a very good and very brave player of fast bowling (in batting conditions much worse than we get even at club games these days) and in this case had to show considerable resolve against a fired up Kortright who hit him several times.

But yes, that last word of Kortright's was a great one. But he had to wait to deliver it - even after the stumps went flying Grace hung around for a while to see if the umpire felt like calling "no ball".

WG was a very keen cricketer, who would play for just about any team if it mean playing. His elder brother EM was also a fine player (would have been regarded as the best in the world if the kid brother hadn't come along) and similarly competive and cantankerous. The umpire's nightmare in those days was to turn up for what he thought was going to be a friendly Sunday village match only to find that the Grace brothers had got themselves involved and were on opposing sides.

Bob-Dubery

Brentcgp wrote My favorite story of Grace is: ?

Once in an exhibition match given out leg-before, he refused to walk and told the umpire: "They came to watch me bat, not you bowl". And the innings continued. Rumor has it! ?

The best WG Grace sledge was on him, though, not from him. Charles Kortright had dismissed him four or five times in a county game - only for the umpires to keep turning down his appeals. Finally, he uprooted two of Grace's three stumps. Grace stalled, as though waiting for a no-ball call or something, before reluctantly walking off with Kortright's words in his ears: " Surely you're not going, doctor? There's still one stump standing."

My favourite quote from cricket is not a sledge. It comes from Brian Close who captained Yorkshire. England and Somerset. Close was a big man who professed to be scared of nothing on a cricket field. He would tell players who had concerns about fast bowling that a cricket ball can't hurt you because it's only on you for a second. He was also famed for being unreasonable and fierce. Geoff Boycott tells a story about a match in which Yorkshire's fielding was poor and the captain, Close, gave them all a bollicking at lunch time. Boycott reminded the captain that he had himself dropped a sitter. Close picked him up and hung him from a coat peg.

And Close liked nothing more when the game was going nowhere than to field impossibly close to the bat.

So the story goes that there's a match which is in the doldrums. Close puts his spin bowler on and tells him "I'll field at silly mid-off and get in his way, then he'll have to go for the sweep and that's how we'll get him out." Close situates himself very close to the batsman and in his line of sight. The batsman, determined to not take any nonsense from Close, goes on the drive. The ball hits Close on the forehead and rebounds. Close falls over, but seeing that the ball hasn't bounced shouts "catch it!". The catch is taken in the slips. Then the fielders, concerned about the captain run over and ask how he is. Close gives the usual "it's only a cricket ball" response. Then the bowler asks "but Skipper, what if it hit you an inch lower?" Close replies "He'd have been caught at short leg."

Sean

Brentcgp wrote I'll always ask the question back.. You tell me why not? Usually can't get an answer cause those who don't rate Smith as a cricketer, know NOTHING about cricket :-\

Sorry... but credit must be given where it is due...

Good grief, so you like the man, I get it. I don't have any personal issues with Smith, the guy is a good cricket player, I did not imply that I don't rate him, only that I would simply not put him in a world XI, that is not to say that I think he is crap, many fine cricketers won't make my world XI because, well, there can only be XI, okay? Take it easy Brent, if you feel I don't know anything about cricket, that is certainly your prerogative.

Brentcgp wrote Just so you know He was recently put in the Proteas All Time XI... and still has another 6 years of good cricket in him! Is that not enough? Stats NEVER lie...
And He is actually a hellava nice bloke on top of that!

check out www.cricinfo.com and spend some time there before we judge

Yes, I do know he was recently put in the Proteas All Time XI. I've never met the man, don't know him personally, but from what I've seen he certainly seems like a " hellava nice bloke", I don't think my post insinuated that he is not.
This forum is full of lists by various "authorities" about all time "best" guitarists etc etc that many don't agree with. It's also not always about stats, but I'm not even going to bother about getting into that, because this is now a topic I have been completely put off of.

chris77 wrote Patriotism... and he averages over 50 home and away and has that never say die attitude that makes good players into great ones. After readmission we had that "uhmm, sorry to bother and be a nuissance, but would you mind if we play as well?" nice guy attitude that won hearts but lost matches. Under Smith we managed to drop that Jannie Jammergat houding and have actually played our best cricket since the seventies. If Smith comes of we win more often than not, simple as that. My captain would be Ponting, not Smith - but why would you NOT choose him?

Hey Chris, good reply, thanks. I partly agree with what you've said. I maybe feel that the "hardness" of SA cricket (after readmission) was more to Hansies attitude and what he brought to the team as a captain, although I certainly view Smith in a similar light. I recall the incident of Hansie throwing a stump into a door on the way to the changeroom after drawing a test in Australia where the standing umpire (might have been the infamous Daryl Hair, I can't recall) gave Steve Waugh not out after he stepped back onto his wicket while playing a stroke. His wicket could have given us the test, which would have given us the first series win in Australia (which Smith has now managed to achieve). To me, that does not sound very "Jannie Jammergat" ?
Smith has good stats, yes, but I simply don't think he is consistent enough imo. He has a couple of big double centuries that certainly help his stats yes, and when he comes off we do seem to win more often than not. I'm not judging the man, I like him. Just for me, he would not make my world XI.

@ Brent I just had a look at my original post, I suppose my shocked face is what caused the issue. I'll replace the ? with ? Happy?

Squonk

@ Sean, you are spot on with Smith.

There is absolutely no doubting his ability and extreme cricketing talent, but he is not consistent and I think he might have too much say in the choosing of the chosen frozen that is Cricket SA today. There must be a whole lot more to Mickey Arthur going!

The Selectors seem to have such a small pool of players to choose from that they can keep on choosing players that are performing way below average, I am not saying that these players are bad players but if after 8 innings and you are still not scoring, surely they must be dropped or sent for conditioning.
And where did the pull Gibbs and Bosman out of the hat?

How many more players are we going to provide for the other test playing nations
read about Englands new rising star
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/8529302.stm

[deleted]

@ Sean
That's why I ask the question... I was just mentioning that usually you get a blank stare back and no one can justify why Smith is always hated and underrated ?

Didnt mean to attack you in anyway ? Your answer was good

I would put him in my squad with Sehwag as current best openers...

Squonk wrote @ Sean, you are spot on with Smith.
but he is not consistent and I think he might have too much say in the choosing of the chosen frozen that is Cricket SA today. There must be a whole lot more to Mickey Arthur going!

You don't average 50 in test cricket and 40 in ODI and be incosistent??

You shouldn't confuse politics with a Captain and Coach that stood by what they believed in... Which is actually PLAY your BEST / FORM players.

Lets wait for Mickey Arthurs book!!!! ?

Sean

On the consistency issue Brent, I decided to take your advice and have a look at the statistics. I feel a player can have a high average and still be inconsistent. Granted I have not delved deeply into this because I simply don't have the time, so I just took Smith's test career batting graph and compared it to Kallis' graph. The red and blue lines are 50's and 100's. Smith has the 200's which Kallis does not have.

I'm not saying Smith is useless by doing this, just that I think Squonk and I have a point about his lack of consistency. Maybe compared to other guys his consistency if fine, I don't know, I'm not going to check and see, but certainly compared to Kallis, we can see that he is not.

Smith

Kallis

Still a world class player, great guy, but will just miss my world XI ?

Bob-Dubery

Sean wrote
On the consistency issue Brent, I decided to take your advice and have a look at the statistics. I feel a player can have a high average and still be inconsistent.

See my comments elsewhere in this thread. Bradman got a ton every third time he batted. Tendulkar is probaby getting ton every 5th time he bats. If, on average, you are getting a ton every 5 or 6 innings you are a very good player. If you're getting a ton every 3rd innings you are the finest player ever. ALL batsmen are inconsistent.

Sean

X-rated Bob wrote ALL batsmen are inconsistent.

Agreed...but some more than others ? ...it's the nature of the game ?

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