Rap - more than meets the eye/ear. - GuitarTalk Community

Bob-Dubery · 2010-02-03T12:20:18+00:00

Consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping On another thread Ray had mentioned the J Geils Band as artists who had incorporated spoken word and funk. Thi...

Rap - more than meets the eye/ear.

singemonkey

Oh wow. I've heard Memphis jug bands do this. It is totally rap. I just didn't recognise it because of the context. Not just similar, as in people talking over music, but rhythmic talking.

singemonkey

There's a lot here. I think what I need is a compilation of people who are really great. I think we get turned off it a lot by hearing either crap, or one person's favourite thing. I like a bit of Snoop Dogg, a bit of Public Enemy, and I would have married Lauren Hill in a second, but generally the stuff I hear leaves me cold. Mostly because it's that "why I'm so baddass, take 12" kind of stuff. It says nothing to me about my life.

PeteM

Don't forget 'talking blues' from the early 1900s. Not as fast as rap but similarly in tempo and working across the beat.
True rap to me is the expression of social issues - some is authentic comment but most of it is commercial, designed to make a fast buck. I don't know that rap can be 'enjoyed', it is inherently aggressive.

G

singemonkey wrote: There's a lot here. I think what I need is a compilation of people who are really great. I think we get turned off it a lot by hearing either crap, or one person's favourite thing. I like a bit of Snoop Dogg, a bit of Public Enemy, and I would have married Lauren Hill in a second, but generally the stuff I hear leaves me cold. Mostly because it's that "why I'm so baddass, take 12" kind of stuff. It says nothing to me about my life.

Burn down the disco, Hang the blessed DJ

i read some article once, i cant remember where, Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues music video was the first rap video.

Bob-Dubery

G wrote:
singemonkey wrote: There's a lot here. I think what I need is a compilation of people who are really great. I think we get turned off it a lot by hearing either crap, or one person's favourite thing. I like a bit of Snoop Dogg, a bit of Public Enemy, and I would have married Lauren Hill in a second, but generally the stuff I hear leaves me cold. Mostly because it's that "why I'm so baddass, take 12" kind of stuff. It says nothing to me about my life.
Burn down the disco, Hang the blessed DJ

i read some article once, i cant remember where, Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues music video was the first rap video.

I can see how one could come to that conclusion.

Some of the things that are appreciated in rap can, I think, be found in Dylan's magical late 60s period. Especially the way that the rhythm of the words is important. And there's that street-wise attitude too.

I'll add that I think that video is elegantly clever and way cool even today. Back in the 60s it must have been amazing. Dylan was such a clever operator, such a visionary.

G

i have seen the concept of that video used in at least 5 others, i think the one was by common a rapper thats was in the country not to long ago. dylan's the greatest his music means a lot to me even tho most of its older than what i am. they don't make them like they use to...

IceCreamMan

Gangsta rap is the most self deprecating genre of music there is... calling women ho's and yr mates nigga's etc etc...

I am surprised the african american movements have not called for its total ban

Bob-Dubery

IceCreamMan wrote: Gangsta rap is the most self deprecating genre of music there is... calling women ho's and yr mates nigga's etc etc...

There's plenty of rock that is lyrically sleazy or distasteful. I'm exempting Zappa from that because he was usually being satirical (though was, I think, taken literally by many people).

I'm not saying that it is necessarily the case with rap or specific rap artists, but you have to be careful with lyrics sometimes and your response to them. It would be very easy, for example, to conclude that Randy Newman thinks the slave trade was a good idea. You could build a case for Bernie Taupin and Elton John being woman haters.

IceCreamMan

X-rated Bob wrote:
IceCreamMan wrote: Gangsta rap is the most self deprecating genre of music there is... calling women ho's and yr mates nigga's etc etc...
There's plenty of rock that is lyrically sleazy or distasteful. I'm exempting Zappa from that because he was usually being satirical (though was, I think, taken literally by many people).

I'm not saying that it is necessarily the case with rap or specific rap artists, but you have to be careful with lyrics sometimes and your response to them. It would be very easy, for example, to conclude that Randy Newman thinks the slave trade was a good idea. You could build a case for Bernie Taupin and Elton John being woman haters.

i agree , of course all genre's of music have the sleaze element ... some of the most deliciosly wicked songs are so well written and written about sex etc...my nick is an example of such but gangsta rap essentially (IMHO and i stress that) is degrading both to women and the black american race. I have yet to see that in any other genre of music.

I am surprised gangsta rap is actually allowed , some of the lyrics about killing the police etc are in my opinion hate speech ... but the american constitution allows it ... just put a sticker on the cd ..sticker alone guarentees 10 000 copies sold

Ray

In another thread somewhere, there was all sorts of talk about stuff that you listen to and are embarrassed to mention. I didnt participate then because I dont think you should be embarrassed. So, here is who I think is rap and who I think is pretty together. Sometimes when I drive along and they play one of the numbers (not sure if it's songs ek se) I gotto bump it up so they scream straight at my head. That was in the Volvo which is dead now the speakers dont do that. Who? Linkin Park. Ag alright, I get a kick out of them sometimes and I think I must go buy some.

nicovlogg

Notorious B.I.G. - Ready to Die

Gangsta rap. Contains the words ho, yo, and bro in abundance. But it's pretty interesting, kind of authentic I guess, long before these guys were all over MTV.

chris77

Why do they call it Rap? Is it an acronym or something?

PeteM

chris77 wrote: Why do they call it Rap? Is it an acronym or something?

It's an English word meaning to talk, to speak. One could say "we had a good rap together". I think it was initially used to describe the short sharp phrases/words that come from a supposed spirit.

chris77

Aaaaah, o.k. Thanks Pete. ?

Ray

Really Atrocious Poetry - NAH!! It could mean you the fall-guy you know taking the rap for something. But here I think Pete's got it.

Keira-WitherKay

yeah don't underestimate the musical value of rap........ i tended too to be isolated from the rap scene till i shared a house with a rapper who is born on the island of Dominica in carribean, and he opened my eyes to very interesting rap...... he's just been performing in the UK and europe... and this genre is bigger than pop or rock will ever be........... we should not be blind to it ...... not saying you must like it or support it but it is out there with a huge following and here to stay .....

this is where rockers sometimes dissapoint me in their intollerance of other styles other that are not guitar driven ......... listen to everything you might just learn something .... oh and rap will teach you how to get your rythmic act together ........ cos in that genre everything has to groove all the time........ it's an interesting style to disect ......... also a large percentage of the lyrics are awesome ...very clever poetry ....with messages.......

and sure gangsta rap is the one most of us won't like ...and yes i find the lyrics demeaning and also feel strongly it should be banned .... but that like saying you hate all rock cos you don't like death metal which is only a sub culture of the entire genre........

inflames

Then you get SA Rap:

Brasse Vannie Kaap, they were really cool back in the day. They probably started the whole rap movement in SA.

Now there is a new wave of SA Rap going with Die Antwoord and Jack Parow.

I know that Jack Parow is doing exceptionally well after his "Cooler as ekke" video.

lindsmuse

Saw a program on Dstv a while back - series -'So you think you can dance'.

The dancing and physical side of Rap seem to me be just as or even more important than much else. The rhythm is so powerful - the lyrics/vocals just become another percussive instrument. I don't know whether anyone saw it - Friday nights.

There are sub-styles of dance to Rap - it is really extraordinary. What amazes me is how quickly this culture grew and established itself. In the contest all the dancers had to be able to not only cope with ballroom, modern, latin etc - but always there'd be a Rap duo. And to me this was the most exciting and entertaining to watch ... it draws on incredible musicality and physical dexterity ...

No I don't think the guitar belongs in rap AT ALL. shame man. It can't do EVERYTHING.

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote: There are sub-styles of dance to Rap - it is really extraordinary. What amazes me is how quickly this culture grew and established itself.

It's been around quite a while - I think longer than many suspect. Run-DMC got going in the early 80s. I can still remember "Rapper's Delight" by the Sugar Hill Gang. The reason I remember is that some friends and I heard this being played in the Plumb Crazy in Jo'burg and decided to pogo to it just to make a point. That would have been 1979.

OK... "Rapper's Delight" was a reworking of Chic's "Good Times", but if you were to hear it now you'd recognise the vocal as proto-Rap.

Didn't Blondie have a go at rapping?

Two of the guys from Talking Heads did an album "Wordy Rappinghood" - that would have been in the 80s.

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote: No I don't think the guitar belongs in rap AT ALL. shame man. It can't do EVERYTHING.

One of the earliest rap hits was built around a guitar riff by Nile Rogers - rhythm guitar maestro for Chic.