NorioDS
One day, when I'm big, and no longer working for my money, I'd like to study music. Currently I'm thinking of going to TUT because it's not too far, I've heard good things about it, and their music stuff is jazz, which I prefer to classical.
I'm wanting to do the full haul. Diploma, Degree, etc. I'm not just wanting to learn how to play better.
What do you guys recommend?
Keira-WitherKay
hi Norio... studies in music is definitely a good thing .... and the only guidance is find out who the guitar lecturers are at each uni/music school cos the reality is that if you listen to students you can normally hear who their lecturer is hehheheh seriously .... as in any art form if you study under say jonathan crosley who is at wits or used to be not too sure .you will be hugely influenced by him and his technique ...which is not a bad thing ...he's awesome......... but you get what i'm saying ..... so basically if you study that intensely that it's a 24/7 course you will be influenced for sure ........so that long story is just to say pick the music school with the guitar lecturer/tutor you admire.......and who's style you admire ...........
heheheh and i believe scott henderson is lecturing at GIT in state hehehheh wouldnt he be a fab tutor .......
but yeah an awesome idea....one can never be too educated
DonovanB
I hear the guys at UKZN, Howard College in Durban are good.
I also want to study further Norio but for me I would do a BMus majoring in Music production instead of performance.
Why I would do a BMus is that you can study music through various places, small colleges, Music school (I went to Trevor Thomas who taught Ernie Smith but I couldn't relate to him. He's good but not for me) Technikons churn out some good performers as well.
But from my experience of playing with people who have completed the BMus there is no confusion when they speak, no grey areas in music and certainly no BS. the one guy was a complete tool but I could speak to him and he would understand and answer in a language that can be understood, no strange pattern, no modes to confuse anyone. It was straight up "this is what I expect" or "this is the key and time sig" thats it.
Ray
BMus is a lot of work. If you love music so much that it doesnt matter that it quite possibly not gonna make you wealthy (not in SA anyway) then that's OK. I dont know if there is any parttime curriculumfor it anyway and cant imagine how you could manage the pracs for such.
Well this was way back but my older sister did a BMus and even further and did the SABC orchestra thing and taught at schools and privately and still had to mooch off the folks halfway thru the month. So I didnt feel so bad because I did fokol and mooched anyway. Nowadays she is making a good living in Project Management and does not touch a musical instrument.
DonovanB
yip, it is a full time degree.
Although both people I know make a decent living off music.
Wizard
Here's an amusing insight.
My violin teacher was the top violinist in the country, but had been taught by his father and had no formal qualifications at all.
His career progression had been through performance.
He had a fairly strong bias against formal qualifications and used to claim that there were many well qualified musicians who couldn't play.
He clearly had an issue with it and used to declare:
B.Sc = Bull Sh*t
M.Sc = More Sh*t
Ph.D = Piled higher and deeper
?
Gearhead
(Assuming the violon pro played classical music? coming from someone who only plays covers, that's not such a statement...
I think that music theory really starts coming into the picture once you try to compose, and that combined with fingercharts it helps a great deal with improv.
Squonk
I remember meeting a Busker in Rosebank years ago.
He had decided to quit his job and travel around the country busking or whatever he could do to make money from playing guitar.
He wanted to study but decided that the best studying would be to busk all over RSA, and he insisted that he had improved as a musician a hundred times over since busking on the streets and playing at restuarants etc.
Now to get my Wife to agree to being the main Breadwinner.....
NorioDS
Thanks guys ?
Keira, your post makes a lot of sense. I suppose it's time I find out who's teaching where and take it from there. I know from living with Tanya while she was studying that the lecturers have a huge influence on your studies. Even if you don't let them influence your style (she didn't - she's way too offbeat for their liking) they still affect your enjoyment of studying. Definite food for thought, thanks ?
As for the money/career thing, I'm not concerned about it. Not in the slightest. I'm *first* setting up my businesses so that they make money without me working in them, and *then* going to go study. So whatever extra work I do while studying, after studying, can be done for enjoyment.
It's purely about the actual studying. I want to learn as much as I can about music and I believe that if I do it academically, it will be a pain in the arse but it will also force me to learn stuff that I would never otherwise force myself to learn. Stuff that will prove useful to me down the line, much how algebra is useful to me now, but that I wouldn't choose to learn myself.
And, frankly, I'd like to be a student. I skipped that part of my life and, now that I know what I'm passionate about, I'd like to claim it back.
PeteM
When I started out playing music in the mid 60s, there weren't any formal music schools and colleges in SA other than doing study and exams etc. through the Royal College of Music and Trinity offered by classically oriented music teachers, which I saw as being stuffy in their approach.
Also on offer were correspondence courses by Julliard and Berklee, in the States, both of whom were more progressive in their approach.
I started a 4 year arranging course with Berklee, which I did diligently for about a year, but hey, it was damned difficult posting off your work and then waiting up to 4 weeks for a reply with comments from the lecturers. Needless to say I became frustrated and lost interest. But that one year of study helped me a hellava lot in my understanding of harmony, which is essential in composition and arrangement.
A good buddy of mine, the late Dave Pollecutte, completed the course and made a damned good living out of music - one of the top composers and arrangers in SA through the seventies, eighties and nineties, the highlight of which was the writing of the music for the movie Chaka Zulu, the royalties of which gave him a 'pension' for the rest of life.
The reason for this lengthy intro is to express how fortunate aspiring musos are in SA today with a number of good music-based education institutions on your doorstep. I say that if music is your deep, deep passion then you must enter it.
Yeah, earning a very good living in the arts disciplines might be difficult in SA, but like any career, its what you make of it - its the energy you put into it that determines both your monetary and spiritual rewards and successes.
Squonk
Hi Norio
http://www.acm.ac.uk/
My Brother did a Two year course at ACM and he hugely benefited from the studying.
The one year he had to pick a guitarist and then study all the solo's and present a paper on the music styles and explain in detail what the guitarist did. He chose Peter Green.
They also do intense Studio and recording as well.
His mentor tutor was Govan Guthrie, he also did classes with the late Eric Roche, quite a good acoustic guitarist.
Could be a nice 2 year stint in the UK
NorioDS
Great post, Pete, thanks ? I never enjoyed school or the idea of music but that was before I realised I could study music. That's something I feel I can dedicate myself 100% to.
Thanks Squonk ? I'd love to see more of the world, and study at the same time, but Tanya's feet are quite firmly glued in SA so I'm more likely to study locally.
21Fretter
Squonk wrote:
Hi Norio
http://www.acm.ac.uk/
My Brother did a Two year course at ACM and he hugely benefited from the studying.
The one year he had to pick a guitarist and then study all the solo's and present a paper on the music styles and explain in detail what the guitarist did. He chose Peter Green.
They also do intense Studio and recording as well.
His mentor tutor was Govan Guthrie, he also did classes with the late Eric Roche, quite a good acoustic guitarist.
Could be a nice 2 year stint in the UK
I think
http://www.campusofperformingarts.com/ (COPA) is an affiliate of acm.ac.uk. Maybe give them a look see.
Renesongs
Berklee - no seriously they now offering a correspondence course - expensive but you get what you pay for 8)
NorioDS
@21Fretter, Thanks, I'll check them out.
@Rene, I don't think I could do correspondence. I need some guidance and structure in the beginning (so that I can break the rules properly, later on ?).
Renesongs
@ Norio On the the hand (beside five different fingers) there is an adage that when you good enough to get into Berklee you probably don't to be studying music anymore.
Ironically I was offered a place to do my Masters Degree at Berlklee in 1988 (this is true I still have the letter as proof) unfortunately it was in Business Science not Music.
arjunmenon
Berklee also does online courses that are worth looking at (the major benefit being that you get access to their unbelievable digital library...and there's enough material there to keep you busy for a very long time) but nothing beats being there and living, eating, sleeping music and meeting like-minded people.
While you're on the further education topic, i was accepted to Berklee in 1999 but neither i nor my folks could afford it...however, that hasn't stopped me from teaching myself. I'm a pretty mathematical sort of person, i like to break stuff down to its simplest form and then build it back up again.
The point is that, who says that you'll find the right teacher and who says that you can't be your own best tutor (sure you might take longer this way than going to a teacher). And as far as influences go, no doubt its a good thing to be influenced (or under the influence) as long as you're voice is still unique.
Its brilliant that you want to learn more and i wish you the very best Norio.
NorioDS
Thanks Arjun ?
I'm very much looking forward to student-life and being around so many other like-minded people. I reckon I'll meet some amazing people and make some awesome friends and I really think that making it formal will make me less likely to say, "ugh I don't feel like it today, I'm too <fill-in-the-excuse>".
But, the biggest thing, has to be that I want to learn about music as a whole and I just know I won't put myself through all that without someone checking up on me ?
Keira-WitherKay
an interesting point to consider is that many great guitarists do not do university courses but find a mentor /tutor they admire and learn that way...... so you start with basic classes but progress to master classes in your desired genre........ cos in reality there is a lot of "fat" (useless information) in the university courses too... as they tailored for a mass market of various genres .... whereas a private mentor /tutor could hone your skills in the genre of choice......... and a university degree is only ever required if you want to teach in a formal institution.... not for being a session muso ...or being a live muso .... there it's all about your 'voice" and if thats what the clients are seeking........
as ray mentioned in his post a little bit up about his sisters Bmus..... it's no garentee of an income or even work, and yes i do know many degreed musos's who don't and in fact can't earn a living from music.........for various reasons......and i also know many muso's who earn fabulous livings as muso's without any formal education .......
but yeah norio i agree with adjun in that a desire for musical education is a fabulous thing .......and whatever route you take i'm sure you will benefit from it
