DonovanB
From watching that video I get irritated by how lifeless they are.
I know many people who dream of playing to an audience like that. Even making a video like this, as lame as he idea seems. Yet they stand there looking at each other, not enjoying the song (no surprise there), but most of all, not enjoying the audience.
I believe the whole band needs to interact with an audience. The connection doesn't only come from the music. If that were the case why would we bother watching music videos or live performances?
and if the connection were to come solely from the music, it need to be an amazing song, I've heard very few that can do that.
I'm tired of thinking of the Parlotones and what they do wrong. I'd like to know what they do right, but I am now too blinded by another view point to see it.
vic
Donovan Banks wrote
From watching that video I get irritated by how lifeless they are.
I know many people who dream of playing to an audience like that. Even making a video like this, as lame as he idea seems. Yet they stand there looking at each other, not enjoying the song (no surprise there), but most of all, not enjoying the audience.
I believe the whole band needs to interact with an audience. The connection doesn't only come from the music. If that were the case why would we bother watching music videos or live performances?
and if the connection were to come solely from the music, it need to be an amazing song, I've heard very few that can do that.
I'm tired of thinking of the Parlotones and what they do wrong. I'd like to know what they do right, but I am now too blinded by another view point to see it.
A good song for the
occasion.
Re. audience...I don't think there was an audience....the video is an overlay ??? with the audience that we see blended in later. :-\
Also.. the song was not done
live.....there's an acoustic guitar in the beginning of the song AND the voice/s are double tracked......unless it was remixed. What you do you think?
These guys have a huge following...so they must be doing something right. It may be the catchiness of their songs?
Mr-M
Thought you guys might like to read this article (especially you Mika), entitled: Parlotones abandon South Africa and Support Germany -
http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2010/06/15/parlotones-abandon-south-africa-and-support-germany/
And, Kahn from the PT's reply. It's rather lengthy, but stilll worth a read to understand their viewpoints on patriotism and their perceived corporate whore-ism:
http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2010/06/15/kahn-from-the-parlotones-responds/
For the Parlotones haters, there's a Facebook group you might like:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120344771334102&v=wall
Personally, I'm finding this thread entertaining reading, partly because of all the questions it brings up: What is acceptable income generation for artists and what is "selling out"? Is art produced for advertising purposes still art? On and on... As for the band themselves, I'm not a fan, but I don't hate them either. Strongly dislike, you might say. ?
singemonkey
"THE SONG IS NOT A BETRAYAL OF OUR COUNTRY IT IS JUST A SONG!"
Baaarp! Wrong (and in all-caps).
Artists represent ideas and ideologies in ways that even sportspeople don't - and certainly in a way that office jockey's don't. Yes, agendas can still lead to great art (Michaelangelo's work was all moulded by his employers in The Vatican), but what you express as an artist determines how you are viewed. So yep. They're surviving in a tough industry. No one begrudges them that. But they are surviving by representing selling out to anyone with a buck. That doesn't give them much credibility in this rock 'n roll world (a world that many listeners inhabit and take pretty seriously).
"Some journalists believe that what he or she does radiates from a place of pure perfection and knowledge of ALL; somehow affording them the license to condemn, i.e. rather don’t write about what you don’t like."
This is a similar vibe to what some people have said on Mika's various threads. I say no. In totalitarian dictatorships you only get to write nice, positive stories. Being able to criticise is part of being free. People may not like it, they may be offended. But that's ok. It allows issues to be thrown out into the sunlight where people can decide how they really feel about them and be exposed to conflicting views. I totally endorse peoples' rights to offend me. Julius Malema offends me. I'd fight his policies ferociously. I'd also fight for his right to express them. Because the alternative is to be controlled.
"Much love Seth, despite this article you’re doing a remarkable job making money by talking shit."
Man I hate this kind of hypocrisy. Hate it so much. This really nails the coffin lid shut for me. You see a lot of wing-nuts on the internet do this: "You're scum and I hope you burn in hell for ever and eternity, watching your family burn!.... kind regards"
Much love? Was there ever a more obvious lie? "I'm so above being critical that I hold these peaceful ideals which you can't even imagine - you useless piece of %#&^!!!!!"
I guess that's what you'd expect from a sell-out, corporate shill.
DonovanB
He shouldn't have responded. but Hindsight is great isn't it.
I'm still curious as to their success. What made them more successful than other acts, who were, IMO, better?
chris77
This will probably reflect badly on my moral fibre to some, but I honestly dont see a problem with them. Its not as if they're pretending to be anything they are not. If it was Jack White doing promo work for McDonalds it will be different. He will be selling out to something he has shown a lot of disdain for over the years. The p.tones have never, afaik, claimed to be above making music for money. So they are what they are and they dont pretend otherwise. They have shown their colours and they are raising their flag and flying it proudly - but whether you salute it or not is up to you. If somebody sells you a yarn about how a small little capital investment in their venture will earn you 500% interest, risk free and guaranteed - then shame on them, and they will deserve all the colourful below the belt adjectives thrown at them when you lose your savings. But if he tells you from the start that it is a risky and illegal endeavour that might see you make a fortune but will probably see you lose it all, and you STILL decide to invest your pension, the blame doesnt lie with him but with you. You hold the key. If you dont like them or what they do then dont support them or the products they endorse. They will continue to sell until the public doesn't buy anymore. I have a pet hate for boybands and backtrack artists, so I avoid their music and will have a jibe at them whenever I can, but I dont begrudge them their success. Its what they do earn a living and if they can live with themselves then thats fine by me.
chris77
This will probably reflect badly on my moral fibre to some, but I honestly dont see a problem with them. Its not as if they're pretending to be anything they are not. If it was Jack White doing promo work for McDonalds it will be different. He will be selling out to something he has shown a lot of disdain for over the years. The p.tones have never, afaik, claimed to be above making music for money. So they are what they are and they dont pretend otherwise. They have shown their colours and they are raising their flag and flying it proudly - but whether you salute it or not is up to you. If somebody sells you a yarn about how a small little capital investment in their venture will earn you 500% interest, risk free and guaranteed - then shame on them, and they will deserve all the colourful below the belt adjectives thrown at them when you lose your savings. But if he tells you from the start that it is a risky and illegal endeavour that might see you make a fortune but will probably see you lose it all, and you STILL decide to invest your pension, the blame doesnt lie with him but with you. You hold the key. If you dont like them or what they do then dont support them or the products they endorse. They will continue to sell until the public doesn't buy anymore. I have a pet hate for boybands and backtrack artists, so I avoid their music and will have a jibe at them whenever I can, but I dont begrudge them their success. Its what they do earn a living and if they can live with themselves then thats fine by me.
singemonkey
chris77 wrote
they are raising their flag and flying it proudly - but whether you salute it or not is up to you.
And that's why we're having this discussion. Something being up to me doesn't mean that I avoid all outside input. The up to me part comes after I've heard relevant arguments (if I care enough about the subject to listen).
So nothing to disagree with there, per se. You can look at them as good businessmen or embarrassing representatives of SA rock. Since there are plenty of good businesspeople out there, I rather tend to focus on the embarrassing display they make of our artistic ambitions. I don't go around "admiring" de Beers - despite their success. It's business, hardly an extension of the human spirit that I get excited about.
Juluka, on the other hand, I can admire. Not because they made money - which they did - but because they showed what South African rock musicians are capable of artistically.
Making money is necessary, but dull. To me it confers no aura of wonder. Now the latest homenin fossils found in Guateng, or the first human heart transplant being done in my neighbourhood, or Led Zeppelin rocking their asses off. That's cool.
MIKA-the-better-one
Their patriotism does not bother me, truthfully the yprobably do support SA. But not enough to pretty much sell out to any, company big enough to pay them, and boost there image.
Parlatones, are really as representative of SA rock as Paris Hilton is for her intelligance. The point is they are a company that does music sometimes, not well, and will be forgotten soon enough (I hope) Their success is due to there corprate flirting, which is fine, however I would hate to be ina band that does that, as I wouldnt feel to proud. Ontop of this I dont think anyone can say the band is really proud of their music.
The song for the Germans is actually quite awful I thought, it seems to be rather a rip on most anthem like songs.
Kahn seemed a bit of a P***** for his little comeback to the articale, at the same time I dont hold it against them for doing a german world cup song, its expected, they will better from it, they will gain FANS all over the world, they will make money. They will become bigger, and people will call them a good band because they are big, BUT we here in this thread know why, because they sell out to anything.
DonovanB
I must be honest and say if any corporation offered me bucks to endorse something I would more than likely do it. If I can retire sooner than later and I get called a sell out, then so be it.
I don't think the definition of what is "rock 'n roll" matters much to my wallet, or to SA Homeloans who graciously lent me the money to buy my flat.
When I am a millionaire I will be picky about it. The organisations that are endorsed by the Parlotones aren't exactly kak, they are not "rock 'n roll" but they are also not Mrs Soandso's curry den on Edwin Swale's drive.
chris77
Singe, when you put it like that it makes sense. I just dont think its fair to judge them as an all out rock band, because they aren't one. I have a helluva lot more respect for someone like Mika who will play his music and starve rather than drive an Aston Martin because he makes cheezy pop, than for the popstardude. You can't buy integrity. So if one day Mika starts a post that says : Why backtracks are cool and you guitarists are just a bunch of snobbish whiners - said in a not so nice tone, then I will be offended, disapointed and outraged enough to have a go at him. But if its Steve Hoffmeyer, then boo-hoo-hoo. I might read it but instead of reacting I will just shake my head and place him higher on my shitlist. The p.tones are a pop band and should be judged as one. They have a few catchy pop tunes, and a very specific image thats working for them. Judging them on a higher scale is unfair to them and insulting to the other musos who actually do belong on that pedestal.
NorioDS
Chris, you and Don are making the most sense - at least to me - in this thread. +1, etc ?
MIKA-the-better-one
chris77 wrote
Singe, when you put it like that it makes sense. I just dont think its fair to judge them as an all out rock band, because they aren't one. I have a helluva lot more respect for someone like Mika who will play his music and starve rather than drive an Aston Martin because he makes cheezy pop, than for the popstardude. You can't buy integrity. So if one day Mika starts a post that says : Why backtracks are cool and you guitarists are just a bunch of snobbish whiners - said in a not so nice tone, then I will be offended, disapointed and outraged enough to have a go at him. But if its Steve Hoffmeyer, then boo-hoo-hoo. I might read it but instead of reacting I will just shake my head and place him higher on my shitlist. The p.tones are a pop band and should be judged as one. They have a few catchy pop tunes, and a very specific image thats working for them. Judging them on a higher scale is unfair to them and insulting to the other musos who actually do belong on that pedestal.
you have caught me.... I was postng that thread next, O was gonna let this one die down, then WHAM, Backtracks for LIFE!!!
Ptones= pop band... yes..... best way to put it... but it annoys me when they are put as SA's biggest rock act..... or anything close..... they are pop....
Springbok nude girls....... I dont like them that much... But I do know that the yare GOOOD at what they do....... and they could well earn the right to be SA's big rock act....... really
@ norio.... you hand out those +1's like you have a bloody bag of them....... ?
Skywalker
Yeah man!!! Chromium rocks :bopping: Definately one of the "better" sounding heavier local bands out there.
So my first and untainted impression of them, was "at least they have enough personality left to sing with a South African accent".
Well said Viccy. I'm not a huge Parlatones fan but do respect the fact that they are "succesful" and are indeed opening doors for other SA bands like Alan said. It absolutely drives me crazy when SA bands try to sound "American" or "British" or whatever so yeah, I'll give the Parlatones the thumbs up there - BUT only there.
And once I get started I can find some other things to like about the Parlotones like the fact that their underwear is NOT showing! There are actually a lot of things in life to be grateful for if you just look for it.
:roflmao: WAAHAAHAAA!!! Damn skinny jeaned palukas - I could think of nothing more retarded than purposely "showing off" one's undergarments. Super annoying!!!
Well, the thing is Ray, is that no one seems to mind something that they dislike being torn a new one.
Kinda like the French football team last nite being torn a new one by the Mexicans ? unfortunately at the expense of Bafana.
Making money is necessary, but dull.
Agreed ? I don't particularly enjoy my day job, but it pays well and I've set my studio up from what I've managed to save in the last few years. Things balance out after 5pm when I can get jamming and chill a bit 8)
singemonkey
In response to Donovan's post, I think that if you're a musician no matter what - those are your skills - then it makes sense to do whatever's going to pay the bills with music. One of the things that made me quite happy with dropping any ideas about being a professional photographer is what a boring, soulless job it is 80% of the time. Amateur photographers, and amateur musicians have one important advantage - they get to do whatever they like.
You have the problem of not getting to devote as much time to it as a professional, but you gain the luxury of not having to compromise. If you manage to develop your skills sufficiently in the reduced time available to you, you can pretty much have the best of both worlds.
Because the average musician probably never gets to do the coolest thing they can imagine as their primary source of income. How many musicians must play jazz standards, or write jingles in their home studio (which I'm sure they enjoy else, why would they do it at all), but their real passion is, say, playing in that experimental bebop band once a week? You know what I mean? Where their musical passions are also only fully explored in side-projects.
It must still be damn rare to find yourself John Coltrane - being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to be making the most cutting edge, exciting music imaginable.
I can see so many pitfalls. Imagine becoming famous for your teenage angst - I can think of Green Day for example. No imagine you're 42 and you're still expected to spike your hair up, bang out simple power chords, and sing in a petulant teenage whine. How frustrating must that be as a professional musician who has (presumably) developed far beyond the musical interests that made you famous? Look at the poor bastard from The Cure, still having to do his hair in that way as a middle aged man.
It might work for some. I never heard of Chuck Berry complaining. But for a lot of us, I can see huge problems in becoming a famous musician - with only one in ten million getting to be Miles Davis or Jimmy Page - in charge of their musical direction and getting paid for it.
My point is this: for most people there are much easier ways to sell out - as Kahn mentioned. Ways that don't really mean anything (unless you're working for a tobacco company or something - then you should still hate yourself ? ). Rather keep the music for yourself, I say.
Btw, I'm not protesting selling music to big money in general, just in pretending to be a band that represents something to people, while actually merely desperately trying to appeal to the highest bidder. The whole thing reeks of dishonesty.
MIKA-the-better-one
Skywalker wrote
Yeah man!!! Chromium rocks :bopping: Definately one of the "better" sounding heavier local bands out there.
Um, I think chromium sing in a very American accent. I find they are on the whole trend of hard rock ,but sensative :-\
DonovanB
singemonkey wrote
I can see so many pitfalls. Imagine becoming famous for your teenage angst - I can think of Green Day for example. No imagine you're 42 and you're still expected to spike your hair up, bang out simple power chords, and sing in a petulant teenage whine. How frustrating must that be as a professional musician who has (presumably) developed far beyond the musical interests that made you famous? Look at the poor bastard from The Cure, still having to do his hair in that way as a middle aged man.
Or be the backstreet boys ha ha ha.
Well put man. I fully agree, then it's about the choices we make.
Hence again, why I don't judge PT for selling out, I judge them because I am bored of them and they haven't been interesting to me in years.
I think they became popular because of "Here comes a man." Mean Mr Mustard acheived a little bit of popularity from their cover of Buttercup. But nobody hs cracked it.
I do a lot of thinking about what makes a band popular, because I want to do that myself so I try analyse the rights and wrongs of it. This thread has helped me a lot.
Skywalker
MIKA the better one wrote
Skywalker wrote
Yeah man!!! Chromium rocks :bopping: Definately one of the "better" sounding heavier local bands out there.
Um, I think chromium sing in a very American accent. I find they are on the whole trend of hard rock ,but sensative :-\
Good point you make there mate. I was refering to the music in general in that particular genre. They're a good, tight band and ,well, haven't really "sold out" have they?
MIKA-the-better-one
I dont think in that genre there is much room to sell out, especially in this country. The whole metal scene is fairly small and inbread...
The only exception being alchol, and I do remember once long ago doing a show with chromium (in an old band) whereby we competed to win a alchol (jagemietser) sponsership.... They won ?
I think for what they have done they have a big SA following, anyone who likes that style generally likes them
Skywalker
MIKA the better one wrote
I dont think in that genre there is much room to sell out, especially in this country. The whole metal scene is fairly small and inbread...
The only exception being alchol, and I do remember once long ago doing a show with chromium (in an old band) whereby we competed to win a alchol (jagemietser) sponsership.... They won ?
I think for what they have done they have a big SA following, anyone who likes that style generally likes them
Gotta love those Jager "sponsorships" :goodtimes: Not quite KFC or McDonalds hey :-\
Different strokes for different folks I guess ?
