evolucian
I'm a fan. I have the classic blues in neck and middle and the tone generator in the bridge.... My guitar sounds so creamy its perfect for the multistyles. Toneriders are awesome... imo
cortking
Yo dudes,
Anyone got feedback on Tonerider single coils?
I wanna slap 2 singles next to a Generator in my Jackson SL1 Soloist. HSS ???
I'm kinda leaning towards the City Limits according to specs but not sure.
OOHHWWEEE ?
tonerider
cortking wrote:
Anyone got feedback on Tonerider single coils?
I wanna slap 2 singles next to a Generator in my Jackson SL1 Soloist. HSS ???
I'm kinda leaning towards the City Limits according to specs but not sure.
City Limits bridge and middle into your guitar's middle and neck. It's a good pairing with the Generator but would be more balanced if you install a Rocksong in the bridge.
cortking
Cool Dudes! ? ? ?
telefan100
Thanks for the excellent advice Andre and I did check the wiring on the toggle switch.
Here is another stupid question to anyone who might know. Can I make the neck pickup even brighter by changing the capacitor to a higher or lower value?
AlanRatcliffe
Going for a smaller value cap will raise the cutoff frequency so the tone only cuts higher frequencies. It will make the pickup slightly brighter, when the tone is turned all the way up and will cut less mids and high frequencies when used. I usually go with much lower values (if I even have tones at all).
You can also use a higher value pot, which will keep the effect of the tone pot the same in use, but make the guitar brighter when the pot is turned up all the way. A higher value volume pot will also make the pickup slightly brighter and louder.
If the guitar has a master tone, either tone mod will affect both pickups. With the master volume mod you can use the higher value volume pot and add a resistor in so one pickup sees the new, higher value and the other sees the normal value.
tonerider
I go with Alan. If I can add anything it is the following:
From what I understand your particular guitar has master volume & master tone. Since you’ve assembled the guitar yourself you should know what the value of the cap is. If its .022uF (micro farad) it is fairly traditional and should be about right. A .02uF might add a little top end but this is often perceived and open to discussion.
Remember that your circuit is passive. Thus if your tone pot is turned all the way up to 10 the size of the cap will make little difference since the high resistance of the pot will prevent any frequencies to be passed to ground. The size of the cap will only make a difference when you start rolling off high frequencies to ground by turning the tone pot down from 10. A .47uF cap will roll off more high frequencies to ground and make the guitar sound a lot darker than a .022mF cap would with the tone pot in the 0 position. It is also important to wire the guitar right and get the tone pot circuit correct in relation to the volume pot. Since you’re using the Toneriders check out the Telecaster wiring diagram.
You can also experiment by replacing a 250K pot with a 500K or even a 1000K (1 Meg) pot to prevent higher frequencies to escape to ground but beware of 1Meg pots since they’ve been known to show characteristics in single-coil circuits that you might not like. A treble-bleed circuit could help you further but is probably a topic for another thread.
Having said that there are always SOME high frequencies that are somehow passed down to earth and the only way to prevent this is to replace your pot with a Fender 250K no-load pot. The no-load pot at full (position 10) removes the wiper completely from the carbon (moves it past the end of the carbon wiper track) which will therefor make it infinite resistance and this will result in the cap being removed totally from the circuit thus allowing the full frequency bandwidth of the pickup to pass unimpeded to the amp.
Like Alan says he might not even have a tone control at all in a particular guitar. This would be the same as having a no-load pot installed and turned full-up to maximum.
Alan explains very nicely and I hope I'm making sense to you too without confusing you? If not, email me and I'll give a more detailed explanation. ?
telefan100
Thanks everyone for the great info. Every time I read something here I realize there's a lot more to know about wiring and pickups than I thought.
Thanks to this forum I've learned a helluva lot - may I say "helluva"? :?
MikeM
Got my rocksongs, installed em. Now i am going to be as objective as I can on a completely subjective topic. Most people that know me, know I believe these pups are chinese pieces of junk so yea.
First off quality, nothing mind blowing, up to industry standard. The unshielded wire felt a touch brittle or unmalleable? 7/10
Specs, 8k neck (Pretty close to spot on, 8.02k if I remember) 12k bridge . I think this is the biggest difference as I changed from a 8.5k / 14k set. A2 mags. 4 conductor. Got these in Zebra, pretty good looking. Again, industry standard although I'd say slightly too hot but more on this later 8/10
Output - significantly lower than the stock epi pups. This is what baffles me. Only a 0.5k/2k difference and I feel like I've swapped from super hot metal pups down to underwound babies.
Overall eq / tone in MY guitar - I have (had) a bassy LP. 1/4" thick flamed maple. Great guitar, loads of sustain. Like I just said, these are WAY less bassy especially considering I am probably going from Ceramic to A2. Neck pup impressed me. Sounds pretty good actually, I'd prefer it a touch hotter. It seems to react like a 7.6 - 7.8k pup - maybe that's cause I haven't tweaked it. Bridge in all honesty, is thin and quite disappointing however this might be because I am used to the super hot bridge that was previously in, I just feel it's weak. 6/10 in my books
Value, we all know what these are being sold for. Seymour Duncans will cost you about R400 more for a set but availability is an issue. I picked these up second hand from Mr M for a crazy steal. For R1k though, 8.5/10
Overall as a package they're good. You get more than what you pay for I think, range is limited I am chuffed that the have the A2 classic and the rocksong giving us some more options within the range. I'm gonna have to say a solid 7/10.
What I can say, is this has made me wonder about the SDs that I am so loyal to. Perhaps getting our elusive tones is more about matching a pup to a guitar than buying the best pickup. I can't compare it to a handwound bucker yet, but I somehow feel it lacks the complexity and voice of a properly wound pup. I won't be changing these for a few months tho.
cortking
Yo MikeM, you're using the wrong pickups dude. You cant use a rocksong in the same bridge after using the ceramic's brute force. The Rocksong is only 12K and medium output with alnico 2magnet. It should be good with the alnico 2 in the neck. You've become used to the "no tone - too much power" thing.
If you want POWER go for the GENERATORS with alnico 5 magnets in the bridge man. You're wasting your time with the Rocksongs. I'm using a set in my Jackson, we play heavy dude and I've got POWER AND TONE in buckets!
OHWHEEEEEEE ! :? :? :? :? :?
Floydoid
To cortking - I read that you like the Generator set but is it possible to be a bit more articulate and give a more constructive overview of their sound, something like MikeM did with the rocksong.........if it's possible?
I'm about to order the Generator set but I'm not sure if I'm making the right decision. I know that the Rocksong set is probably the best all round set given their output and alnico II tone magnets and they compare very favorable with the DiMarzio Breed and Liquifire pickups I'm also looking at. I don't like my pickups too powerful since I don't like the inherent low end that comes with overly hot pickups and I can easily add low end on the amp should it be necessary. If the bridge is too hot its just mud, and that I really don't want.
Which color set do you have, black, zebra etc? Does it make a difference? Are the two generator pickups really well balanced when played together?
I would like you to step down from planet Mars for just a few minutes, get your s**t together and give me a proper overview.
Thanks! :-\
MikeM
cortking wrote:
Yo MikeM, you're using the wrong pickups dude. You cant use a rocksong in the same bridge after using the ceramic's brute force. The Rocksong is only 12K and medium output with alnico 2magnet. It should be good with the alnico 2 in the neck. You've become used to the "no tone - too much power" thing.
If you want POWER go for the GENERATORS with alnico 5 magnets in the bridge man. You're wasting your time with the Rocksongs.
Yo Cortking. I'm not. I don't like the brute force of the ceramic, I wanted more chime, more articulation, less pickup compression, more midrange hump, more bass in the bridge, a more powerful (Not thin - I need a better work to describe that) nay BALLSY bridge. The neck is what I wanted. The bridge is not. what I'm saying is although this is an 8/12 set, it seems like a 7.6/8 set (slightly exaggerated).
Floydoid. The Generator is similar to the JB. Think midrange hump, loads of harmonic, slightly distant but powerful sound, searing single notes, slightly loose bass, but AMAZING for overdrive tones.
cortking
Yo Floydoid, my planet is called enthusiasm dude! Just get the Generator if you want modern sound. The Rocksongs are more powerful than trad pups but TAKE NOTE that it's got alnico 2 magnets so you WON'T get that ballsy sound that MikeM wants from his rocksong that he installed in his guitars bridge.
He does say it real good about the Generator - remember a pickup will sound different in every guitar.
OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEE !
Gotta get back to planet Mars! ? ? ?
evolucian
Generators do kick tho... it is also the first HB I've played that gives a sweet clean tone too. Not muddy at all, just full cream. I do use a strat though, and my woods being maple and basswood... but I don't see how that would change anything. Unplugged my guitar is bright. Plugged in it is warm. My eq settings are standard... mid is 6, bass is 6, treble is 3 or 4, depending on the room. Tone controls on the git are full... setting it at the amp allows me to forego the extra hassle of fixing it on the guitar during play.
Others may not like my setup, and change the eq's to their own... they might like it or may not like it...
Work your eq's guys, it can change your sound nicely. The only reason I changed to Toneriders is cos my previous pickups were dead. Now having changed it, I had to find my eq settings by going flat (midway to those who don't know) and adjusting from that point on. When you say that your sound is terrible cos of the pickups (brand new)... you have to take a step back and wonder if there may not be a problem elsewhere in your setup.
Give me stock chinese strat pickups and I'll get you a good sound out of it. But, with this in mind, so can you. Listen to the pickups and hear what needs to change. New pickups require a slight change in your "custom" sound, regardless of the price.
I may not know the difference with regards to ceramics and alnico and ohms things, but your ears can make the sound awesome or they can kill it for you. Toneriders, to me, are great. I find no fault with them. I wouldn't trade them for anything, not even Jeff Beck's ones.
Find your sound your pickups offer, and your playing will just sound so much better.
tonerider
MikeM wrote:
I can't compare it to a handwound bucker yet, but I somehow feel it lacks the complexity and voice of a properly wound pup. I won't be changing these for a few months tho.
MikeM - Nice professional review and appreciated! Just wondering what you mean when you say
"it lacks the complexity and voice of a properly wound pup" It appears that you're implying that the Tonerider Rocksong bridge pickup isn't properly wound? However, cortking is correct in his assessment that you probably need the Generator with the hot wind and Alnico V magnet in the bridge to give you the balls and fire you want, assuming we're talking about Tonerider pickups only!
Cortking - your planet is cool!
evolucian - Excellent assessment and I agree when you say that after replacing a pickup/s it is very important to review and adapt the rest of the gear, especially with regards to eq settings. After all, any pickup that one changes has a chain effect on the rest of the setup.
arjunmenon
Geez..i need a smoke after this entire post ???
Mr-M
MikeM wrote:
I don't like the brute force of the ceramic, I wanted more chime, more articulation, less pickup compression, more midrange hump, more bass in the bridge, a more powerful (Not thin - I need a better work to describe that) nay BALLSY bridge. The neck is what I wanted. The bridge is not. what I'm saying is although this is an 8/12 set, it seems like a 7.6/8 set (slightly exaggerated).
What you're mentioning here is what I experienced with them, but then again, I feel pretty much the same about the Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro, Custom Custom and Pearly gates - all Alnico II humbuckers. I found all of them to be thinner sounding than I'd like. I do think the Tonerider Rocksongs are better than any of those Alnico II SDs though, but I just couldn't bond with them in any of my axes.
I'd go so far as to say that I dislike every A2 humbucker I've ever played, yet my all time favourite pickup is the Tonerider Rebel 90 Alnico II P90. I like A2 magnets in single coil pickups, but for humbuckers I tend to find them somewhat dull/ inarticulate and thin-sounding. A2 seems to work pretty well for some vintage output neck humbuckers, but I've never liked an A2 bridge pup. That said I actually liked the bridge Rocksong more than the neck. Different strokes... I still prefer Alnico V (and now also IV since I just installed a set of Alnico IV Classics) in all my 'buckers. This is of course in MY guitars - YMMV and all that.
I do think the Rocksongs are decent pickups and in the right guitar could sound great, but none of mine seemed like the right guitar to me. They seem to have right tonality to really excel in a semi-hollow body guitar, but I don't have one. In a brighter solidbody guitar, they could also sound great. This is based on what I like though. A friend tried them in a mahogany-bodied guitar of mine and absolutely loved them. He keeps gushing about how awesome they are, yet I hated them. In fact Mike M just beat him to buying them from me. ?
MikeM
André Meyer wrote:
MikeM - Nice professional review and appreciated! Just wondering what you mean when you say "it lacks the complexity and voice of a properly wound pup" It appears that you're implying that the Tonerider Rocksong bridge pickup isn't properly wound? However, cortking is correct in his assessment that you probably need the Generator with the hot wind and Alnico V magnet in the bridge to give you the balls and fire you want, assuming we're talking about Tonerider pickups only!
"Properly wound" was the wrong term. Was in a rush ? I meant a handwound ?
I am not looking for something as hot as the generater. After tweaking pup and pole heights I have got a better tone out of it. I will try popping an A8 in and see if I have any A5s here (Lost em ?)
Mike #2, strange. I feel the neck pup is great and the bridge is just a bit lacking. I am scared of my A8 cause it's going to boost treble as well. Basically I need a bit more lower mids in it without changing anything else as the treble and high mids are nice.
Like you said, perhaps that guitar is just a bit unA2able ?
After some tweaking the neck pup is nice. I'm really starting to wonder if it's all about matching pups to your guitar and not having the perfect wind/wire etc...
tonerider
Interesting observations here!
MikeM - I'd love to hear what a Rocksong bridge will sound like with an Alnico VIII magnet! This is something I would also be likely to experiment with. Problem is - where to find one. The Alnico 8 metal compound is very expensive to produce in the foundry but can be magnetized to a higher degree for a clearer ballsy low end and screaming musical highs. They should work really well with a medium coil wind of not higher than 12K.
The Alnico VIII's were commonly used by Ibanez in the late 70's on their Explorer and other American rip-off guitars and EVH famously stuck one in his PAF for the sound that you hear on the first Van Halen album, at least that's how the story goes.
Any spares lying around somewhere? :?
MikeM
I'm out but ordering new again soon. If you want drop me a pm and I can arrange an extra couple. Only one i can't get is A6 which is a bit of a freak amongst the alnicos...
Ai ya yai, I am struggling to get this thing where I want. It's lost it's glassiness... Maybe I do need hotter pups ☹
