Pink Floyd lovers

lindsmuse · 2009-12-01T08:42:00+00:00

It seems that each and every music lover of every generation hold Pink Floyd close to their heart. When the radio used to be the internet and music connected us, I heard this and I'm almost sure it was only ONCE - blurry, crackly etc on our old radio - and I then went on a quest - I had to have it - a song on a seven single - See Emily Play ( it really appealed to my 11 year old brain!) I never found it alas. Then about a month ago I tracked it down on Youtube. Never was I to know how brilliant these guys were to become ... ?

Wizard

Got this from Wiki:

According to Roger Waters, Barrett came into what was to be their last practice session with a new song he had dubbed “Have You Got It Yet?”
The song seemed simple enough when he first presented it to his bandmates, but it soon became impossibly difficult to learn and they eventually realized that while they were practising it, Barrett kept changing the arrangement.
He would then play it again, with the arbitrary changes, and sing "Have you got it yet?".
Eventually they realized they never would and that they were simply bearing the brunt of Barrett's idiosyncratic sense of humour.

FenderBender

Alan Ratcliffe wrote ...and Wright with nothing.

Touche! After growing tension between Wright and Waters during "The Wall" sessions, Waters threatened to pull the plug on "The Wall" if Wright did not leave the band...

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote When I was really huge into Barrett, I noticed that you can actually see the change in pictures. There's the normal guy - then there's the death-owl stare. Once he started looking like that in pictures, he never seemed to look normal again. "Now there's a look in your eye/like black holes in the sky."

From everything I've heard, schizophrenia can hit quite suddenly. My friend said his brother was standing in the pool one day (about the same age as Syd) and suddenly realised he was God. Heartbreaking whackiness ensued.

From Joe Boyd's book White Bicycles
"One evening in May (1967) I ran into Syd and his girlfriend in Cambridge Circus.... Syd was sprawled on the kerb, his velvet trousers torn and dirty, his eyes crazed. Lindsey told me he'd been taking acid for a week. A few weeks later Floyd fans were lined up three deep along Tottenham Court Road for their return to UFO (the club that Boyd ran, where Pink Floyd had made their name). There was no artist's entrance, so one by one they squeezed between me and the crowd, headng for the tiny dressing room in the back. I had exchanged pleasantries with the first three when Syd emerged from the crush. His sparkling eyes had always been his most attractive feature but that night they were vacant , as if some one had reached inside his head and turned off a switch. During their set he hardly sang, standing motionless for long passages, arms by his sides, staring into space. Dave Gilmour was added to the group soon afterwards to cover for him and by the end of the year Syd was gone."

Looking at the list of UFO shows in Boyd's book, and the info on "See Emily Play" on Wikipedia, the first encounter he relates would have been round about the time the group were recording that single IE May 1967. The show he refers to would have been June 2nd 1967.

singemonkey

Before:

After:

Still, I hate hearing what a tragedy it was that he left music. The real tragedy was how his love and peace hangers-on abused the hell out of him when he first started losing it. It seems like he achieved contentment living out his life in the family home, painting, and never touching a guitar again.

Bob-Dubery

Singer Linda Thompson who was working in London and LA in the 60s observed that one of the problems of the time was that nobody thought it their business what anybody else was doing and certainly nobody thought that they should intervene when somebody was doing something that was clearly not very good for them. The example she gave was Nick Drake. She was close to Drake and, like other people who knew him, was concerned about the amount of hash he was smoking and the effect it had on him, but didn't feel it was her place to say anything about it. She went on to say that in the 90s all Drake's friends would have got together and initiated some kind of intervention, but in the 60s nobody did a thing.

This was probably true of a lot of people in that era.

This was the down side of the era of freedom to do whatever you felt like doing. If somebody insisted on doing industrial quantities of drugs or booze well, man, that was, like, their choice and who are we to deny them that? Can you dig what I'm saying?

singemonkey

I read once that someone visited Syd's flat, and asked the myriad leeches what the loud banging sounds were. "Oh. That's Syd. He was having a bad trip so we locked him in the cupboard." I got cold chills and realised exactly why he chose to live most of the rest of his life in his mother's basement.

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote I read once that someone visited Syd's flat, and asked the myriad leeches what the loud banging sounds were. "Oh. That's Syd. He was having a bad trip so we locked him in the cupboard." I got cold chills and realised exactly why he chose to live most of the rest of his life in his mother's basement.

Another problem of the 60s: All these strong forces unleashed on people who didn't have enough information to deal with them properly. In his book Boyd recounts a story of somebody at Harvard whose girlfriend took LSD and had a bad trip. But the guy had access to professor Richard Alpert (later Ram Dass, and later to be kicked out of the uni with Timothy Leary) who was able to advise him on what to do. I can't recall the details off hand, but it included quiet, dim light and a warm bath - not locking somebody in a cupboard.

singemonkey

No. Locking someone in a cupboard would not be sound advice.

I've got a book by Stanislav Grof, the last researcher in the USA to hold a licence to work with LSD. He said that, after one near freak-out in his first experiment, none of his subjects ever had a bad trip. He says that with experienced supervision in an ideal environment, the wobbles are always correctable.

Of course, that's not how the majority of people use it, where it tends to be a crap-shoot.

Wizard

Apparently LSD hallucinations are experienced by the brain as real; and are stored in memory as real memories.
"Bad trips" can therefore lead to psychological trauma (including insanity or PTSD) in exactly the same way as if the person had actually experienced what they were hallucinating about.

Bob-Dubery

Wizard wrote Apparently LSD hallucinations are experienced by the brain as real; and are stored in memory as real memories.
"Bad trips" can therefore lead to psychological trauma (including insanity or PTSD) in exactly the same way as if the person had actually experienced what they were hallucinating about.

David Gilmour said that he took lots of acid but didn't turn out like Syd. A lot of people took a lot of acid in the 60s and didn't turn out like Syd.

It's more likely that Syd had some underlying condition that was aggravated by his drug usage.

singemonkey

Yeah, I found an academic book in the university library going through some of the actual evidence around narcotics - as opposed to the hysteria, or the public health message. It said that it was extremely unlikely that LSD actually caused long term psychosis, as opposed to use coinciding with the onset of psychosis.

It said that many users suffer "LSD Psychosis" which lasts for about 6 months if the person does not continue to use the drug (which they are usually more than pleased to avoid) and treatment is simply treatment for the anxiety and regular reassurance that the person is not, in fact, insane, and that it will get better. And they come right.

It's going to be clearer in the future now that they are developing early tests of schizophrenia before symptoms develop. I think it will be found that those who become insane after use of psychedelics are those who will test "positive" in these pre-symptomatic tests. In other words: Crazies take acid at the same time that they're starting to go crazy. Not: acid makes you crazy.

[deleted]

Got this from Wiki:

According to Roger Waters, Barrett came into what was to be their last practice session with a new song he had dubbed “Have You Got It Yet?”
The song seemed simple enough when he first presented it to his bandmates, but it soon became impossibly difficult to learn and they eventually realized that while they were practising it, Barrett kept changing the arrangement.
He would then play it again, with the arbitrary changes, and sing "Have you got it yet?".
Eventually they realized they never would and that they were simply bearing the brunt of Barrett's idiosyncratic sense of humour.

If I find that funny does it mean I'm crazy too? Actualy, I'd rather live in ignorant bliss concerning my sanity.

Bob-Dubery

Another factor to consider is that what happened to Barret happened in the 60s. Psychology and psychiatry were much less advanced than they are now. Drugs - prescription or otherwise - were less understood and less refined. There were greater social stigmas (especially in the UK) attached to seeking professional help for mental disorders.

lindsmuse

I also think that's funny. I think it's a sadistic sense of humour that you either like or don't - (especially if you're on the receiving end.)

Don't know that much about the story of Syd Barrett - but what I can't understand is why he didn't stop taking acid if he knew it was having a bad effect. I mean surely if its giving you the horrors you would avoid it ...be afraid of it even. Or was it just once or twice and he was gone?

singemonkey

lindsmuse wrote Don't know that much about the story of Syd Barrett - but what I can't understand is why he didn't stop taking acid if he knew it was having a bad effect. I mean surely if its giving you the horrors you would avoid it ...be afraid of it even. Or was it just once or twice and he was gone?

He was doing a lot of acid. Everyone wad doing a lot of acid. Presumably he was enjoying it some of the time. But the acid wasn't the core of the problem. The problem was that he was sinking into mental illness. Some people who are self-medicate as well - trying to make their world less frightening. Eventually Syd had given up the acid and was taking a lot of mandrax. Later he may have become addicted to food for a while. He settled down finally. But he was mentally ill, drugs, or no drugs. As Bob says, at the time there weren't very good drugs available. Just really strong tranquilisers that mostly just turned schizophrenics into zombies.

Maybe his calm towards the end of his life had to do with having access to the newer drugs.

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote As Bob says, at the time there weren't very good drugs available. Just really strong tranquilisers that mostly just turned schizophrenics into zombies.

Or worse. Nick Drake was on anti-depressants that provoked mood swings and were toxic. He died of an overdose of anti-depressants. Whether this was calculated or happened in a moment of panic will never be known. Some people close to Drake theorise that he may have had a sudden, drastic mood swing and tried to compensate by taking more pills.

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote Don't know that much about the story of Syd Barrett - but what I can't understand is why he didn't stop taking acid if he knew it was having a bad effect. I mean surely if its giving you the horrors you would avoid it ...be afraid of it even. Or was it just once or twice and he was gone?

I really don't think that acid was the problem. I don't imagine that it was helping in the long run, but it wasn't THE problem. He might well have disintegrated anyway.

Nobody kept score, but it was clear that Syd did a lot of acid.

But then a lot of people did a lot of drugs, including acid in those days. Most of them lived to tell the tale and didn't descend into schizophrenia or depression.

I don't pass judgment against people who take LSD, but if Barret was doing it for protracted periods of time, as it is reported he was, he probably wasn't up to a rational debate about the pros and cons of doing drugs. Plus he didn't get a lot of support or concern from friends - real or supposed. Pink Floyd dumped him without even telling him. Many of the people around him were just leeches looking for a free ride on the coat tails of a celebrity. And if he was in the first throes of schizophrenia then he wasn't going to be able to discuss the issue rationally - tripping or not.

I used to work at a counseling service in Jo'burg. I wasn't a trained counselor, but when they got busy they would sometimes ask me to keep certain regulars company. Not to intervene or try to counsel them, but just to have a cup of coffee and nod my head whilst they rambled. It was sad. Also scary. The guys running the center were more concerned about me. With schizophrenics their vision of the world is often built such that if you accept at face value one or two things then everything else makes sense. You can get sucked into their space. We had one guy we called "the spaceman" who, he said, had been given instruction by superior beings from outer space. If you accepted that as being the case then the rest of what he was saying started looking very rational and compelling. He wasn't some evil lunatic trying to lure me into his space. He lived in that space and it all made sense to him and most of the time he thought that any oddness lay with the people who were denying reality (or what was reality to him). You just had to be careful it didn't start making too much sense to you.

Renesongs

+10 Bob I think if Syd had played you his song "you would have got it"

lindsmuse

I just quickly went and read a bit about Syd Barret over at Wiki.(Must confess - it was the music I was into - knew little about the band) Was just wondering. Maybe the whole problem with this guy is that he was just way too intelligent to only be a songwriter and a musician. Maybe he was just bored with where he found himself and started taking the piss. I saw he got into abstract painting - seriously. Wonder where that work is and if it's worth anything.
Everyone knows that writing songs is no easy task - I hope the guy wasn't just misdiagnosed and should've been using his creative energy elsewhere ...

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote I just quickly went and read a bit about Syd Barret over at Wiki.(Must confess - it was the music I was into - knew little about the band) Was just wondering. Maybe the whole problem with this guy is that he was just way too intelligent to only be a songwriter and a musician. Maybe he was just bored with where he found himself and started taking the piss.

Well some folks do wonder what it's all about, what it means and if it means anything at all. Look at Peter Green. The 60s was an intense and in many ways disillusioning time. Some burned out along the way.

Ironically Pink Floyd themselves started wondering what it all meant as they got bigger. The audiences would be screaming and hollering and waving bic lighters, but Roger Waters in particular was up there on stage wondering if anybody had really heard what he was trying to say. The album The Wall was largely about this disconnection between artist and audience.

I saw he got into abstract painting - seriously. Wonder where that work is and if it's worth anything.

Paintings by a dead, mad rock genius? Must be money in there somewhere. There's not going to be any more of them.

I should add that whilst Syd was bankrupt for a while, his situation started to improve as royalties came in again. The Floyd in general and David Gilmour in particular tried to make sure that whenever a greatest hits package was released there were one or two of Syd's compositions included. They even got an early Syd-written song onto one of their live DVDs.

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