Bob-Dubery
No, it's just Bob practicing.
Had my first slide lesson today. This is a lot of fun.
What I've started with is a bit different from what Fritz showed on the forum recently. The teacher (Richard Bruyns) and I are working in open D (D A D G F# A D low to high) where as Fritz's demo was in open G.
I quite enjoyed this. If you know a bit of Travis picking you can have quite a lot of fun with a slide and open tuning.
Homework is major scale, pentatonic and the first few bars of a Muddy Waters tune.
I took Fritz's advice and started with a ceramic slide. A different brand from the one he uses - this is a Joe Perry signature model. Initially I'm working with the Smoothtalker - and it sounds pretty cool.
lindsmuse
There you go Bob. Eat your heart out ... ?
Jack-Flash-Jr
Use steel myself (except for a brief period where for :-[ authenticity's sake I used a home made bottle neck - quite easy to make actually, will pass on the recipe if anyone's interested). I like the dobro-like zing and additional noise that steel adds. Key to slide that I really helped me is damping with index and/or middle finger on 'fretting' hand with slide on ring (leaves pinky free to fret) and damping on bridge - both give you control over the howling cat, when you need a screech and when you need a purr ?
FatBoy
Awesome Bob! Can't wait to hear it! Told ya it is fun!
Bob-Dubery
My slide teacher, Richard, is actually a lap steel player.
This morning, at some ridiculous hour, my dogs woke me up. It took a while to get back to sleep so I lay pondering slide guitar and lap steel guitar. They seem so similar, yet there they both are.
I can think of an advantage to slide is that because the hand comes from under the neck you could fret chords more easily if the slide is on the pinky or ring fingers. So what's the advantage, or the pros and cons, of playing lap steel? OK.... I suppose that there may be a tonal gain because you can have a really fat neck. But other than that?
Jack-Flash-Jr
X-rated Bob wrote:
My slide teacher, Richard, is actually a lap steel player.
This morning, at some ridiculous hour, my dogs woke me up. It took a while to get back to sleep so I lay pondering slide guitar and lap steel guitar. They seem so similar, yet there they both are.
I can think of an advantage to slide is that because the hand comes from under the neck you could fret chords more easily if the slide is on the pinky or ring fingers. So what's the advantage, or the pros and cons, of playing lap steel? OK.... I suppose that there may be a tonal gain because you can have a really fat neck. But other than that?
If you play like Jeff Healey I suppose you could fret on lap, depending on type?
FatBoy
X-rated Bob wrote:
My slide teacher, Richard, is actually a lap steel player.
This morning, at some ridiculous hour, my dogs woke me up. It took a while to get back to sleep so I lay pondering slide guitar and lap steel guitar. They seem so similar, yet there they both are.
I can think of an advantage to slide is that because the hand comes from under the neck you could fret chords more easily if the slide is on the pinky or ring fingers. So what's the advantage, or the pros and cons, of playing lap steel? OK.... I suppose that there may be a tonal gain because you can have a really fat neck. But other than that?
Pedal steel is of course a whole different monster, but I don't think there is THAT much difference between slide guitar and a lap steel. I think the main difference is a) the neck is fatter and stronger so you can put much thicker strings on = better tone, and b) because the action is a lot higher and you have the axe horizontally you can use a steel bar instead of a slide.
Mmm that just got me thinking, my Tele's action is quite high, maybe I should try a steel bar out!!
Bob-Dubery
There are really two things happening here.
One is the tuning. You can, of course, play open-D without slide. Some finger-style players, and not all of them blues players, use this tuning.
It's well suited to blues with the slide because you can put the slide right across the neck at 5 and get a G chord. At 7 you get an A. Open or at 12 you get a D. At 3 you get an F - made of the notes F, A and C which are all in the D pentatonic blues scale (F is the flat 3).
So there's the actual tuning, which is interesting in itself. It's also one semi-tone on one string away from DADGAD - which is a bit of a mystery to me and has resisted all attempts by me to make sense of it. So I am hoping that working with open D will start to open up DADGAD for me.
Then there's learning to work with the slide. This requires a good deal of accuracy (or a lot of vibrato) and a light touch. It's a little complicated by having a guitar with a lowish action and a radiused neck rather than one that is set up specifically for steel/slide, but it's not impossible. Generally working the slide across 4 consecutive strings is not that bad. I want to combine slide with some finger picking, so keeping 6 and 5 for the thumb to pick the bass and working the slide on 1 to 4 can come in useful.
Once you start understanding the tuning and where the notes fall on the fingerboard it's not that difficult to set up an alternating bass with the thumb and reel off some pentatonic licks (doing this musically is a bit harder ?)
Bob-Dubery
Fritz Brand wrote:
Pedal steel is of course a whole different monster, but I don't think there is THAT much difference between slide guitar and a lap steel. I think the main difference is a) the neck is fatter and stronger so you can put much thicker strings on = better tone, and b) because the action is a lot higher and you have the axe horizontally you can use a steel bar instead of a slide.
Also because the hand doesn't have to go around the neck this opens up some options regarding body shape and thus tonal options. Things like the weissenborn
Jack-Flash-Jr
X-rated Bob wrote:
There are really two things happening here.
One is the tuning. You can, of course, play open-D without slide. Some finger-style players, and not all of them blues players, use this tuning.
It's well suited to blues with the slide because you can put the slide right across the neck at 5 and get a G chord. At 7 you get an A. Open or at 12 you get a D. At 3 you get an F - made of the notes F, A and C which are all in the D pentatonic blues scale (F is the flat 3).
So there's the actual tuning, which is interesting in itself. It's also one semi-tone on one string away from DADGAD - which is a bit of a mystery to me and has resisted all attempts by me to make sense of it. So I am hoping that working with open D will start to open up DADGAD for me.
Then there's learning to work with the slide. This requires a good deal of accuracy (or a lot of vibrato) and a light touch. It's a little complicated by having a guitar with a lowish action and a radiused neck rather than one that is set up specifically for steel/slide, but it's not impossible. Generally working the slide across 4 consecutive strings is not that bad. I want to combine slide with some finger picking, so keeping 6 and 5 for the thumb to pick the bass and working the slide on 1 to 4 can come in useful.
Once you start understanding the tuning and where the notes fall on the fingerboard it's not that difficult to set up an alternating bass with the thumb and reel off some pentatonic licks (doing this musically is a bit harder ?)
I LOVE DADGAD!! It's supposedly celtic friendly, whatever, but actually you get a whole Moroccan vibe and great for droning... see Page's White Summer/Black Mountainside... (non slide)
You can also accomplish a lot in standard with slide though, you got 3 note chords (obviously) all the way up the fretboard and pentatonic patterns work very nicely if you get the damping right.
PeteM
Sounds like you're having a lot of fun Bob. I play a little bit of slide on some blues numbers but with standard tuning (I don't change guitars). It's restricting but hey, I do get a great sound (I think). I must learn to do it properly though like you're doing - but then I'll have to buy a dedicted guitar with a higher action and different tuning for stage work (Oh for the indulgence of a backstage guitar tech.
I digress - good luck in your new learning adventure. ?
Bob-Dubery
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
\I LOVE DADGAD!! It's supposedly celtic friendly, whatever, but actually you get a whole Moroccan vibe and great for droning... see Page's White Summer/Black Mountainside... (non slide)
That's very perceptive.
The "invention" of DADGAD is generally attributed to Davey Graham, who said that he simply transposed the tuning of the oud (a north african instrument) onto the guitar. So it has those roots and thus that sound, but quickly got taken up by the celtic/folk players in the UK. Irish folk players use it a lot. So does Bert Jansch - who was a major influence on Jimmy Page.
rikus
X-rated Bob wrote:
Also because the hand doesn't have to go around the neck this opens up some options regarding body shape and thus tonal options. Things like the weissenborn
Speaking of weissenborn's, have a look at this clip...
They get a nice groove going!
Bob-Dubery
I started off with the slide on the pinky. This seemed like a more natural thing initially. The ring finger is bigger, the slide doesn't go all the way to the base of the finger and so it looks a tad ridiculous as well.
However, I find it easier to damp behind the slide with the slide on the ring finger, so I'm going to try it that way for a while. The pinky is so much shorter than the others that it's difficult to keep the other fingers (or an other finger) lined up behind it. That problem is reduced with the slide on the ring finger.
singemonkey
My concern, and the reason I'm trying to learn with the pinky, and going to the difference between slide and lap-steel, is being able to fret notes. As far as I can see, you can't really fret notes on a lap steel. At least, it doesn't seem well designed for it. So it's all bar, no frets. Most of the slide players I enjoy most, fret and slide.
Mississippi Fred Mcdowell ?
Jack-Flash-Jr
I'd recommend ring finger for a few .reasons:
1. The slide will slip all the way down on pinky but that artificially stiffens your fretting hand.
2. More control due to more balance.
3. For fretting your little finger can fret anything your ring can but with more stretch.
4. Far easier to dampen with first two fingers as Bob notes.
5. Easier to slip the slide on, but particularly off, to alternate bewteen slide and regular playing.
All that said, I suppose you can slip the slide onto any appendage that fits :?
Bob-Dubery
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
I'd recommend ring finger for a few .reasons:
1. The slide will slip all the way down on pinky but that artificially stiffens your fretting hand.
Ah! Hear that?.... that's the sound of a penny dropping.
FatBoy
I also prefer the slide on the ring finger, problem is my ceramic is too small for my ring finger, so ya, I'm settling for pinky until I can find the right sized slide
Bob-Dubery
So wednesday afternoon I'm practicing. The phone rings. I put the slide down (on a flat surface, standing upright so it can't roll). Whilst I'm yakking on the phone I hear a small crash. There's the slide in pieces on the floor. Don't know how it happened, but a strong wind had whipped up. Could that have blown the slide over? Does it matter? The slide is a goner (No... I didn't think about gluing it back together. Firstly there's bound to be a little sharp edge on it somewhere. Secondly I take anti-coagulants, so a sharp edge on the inside of the slide could get messy)
So once bitten, twice shy. I buy a brass one. This is a Jim Dunlop. It has a taper on it. This taper and the extra weight make it a little more comfortable for me, but the tone is harsher, brighter, a little thinner.
This afternoon I'm out at Hugh's Fine Guitars. I had some stuff to deliver for Hugh. He gave me a slide as a gesture of thanks. This is a "Steve Clayton". It's glass, but quite thick and heavy. Maybe a mill more diameter on the inside. Slides just a little further down the finger. And a less harsh, more liquid tone.
Current state of play is that I find the tapered brass slide a little easier to control, but by far prefer the tone of the glass.
Life used to be so simple...
