PAF / P90

TomCat

Hi All

Just a quick Question.....

What is the basic difference between a PAF style PUP and P90's from a performance / tone perspective.

I'm toying with the idea of upgrading the PUPS at some point in my ARC300 (Similar to LP style guitar)

The style would be modern / classic rock.....looking for a nice deep tone with plenty sustain.....

MikeM

It'd be best to google each term as it's not a quick answer. Maybe AR will ellaborate for us ?

PAF = Patent applied for. The early humbuckers that Gibson pushed out.

P90 = A type of single coil that is thicker than the strat style, usually viewed as in between a bucker and strat.

I'd also recommend listening to some youtube clips to hear P90s. They're AWESOME.

Fishzn

Yeah personally I would youtube both of them to see which type of sound you prefer! I was actually thinking of getting a set of P90s but then decided against it in favour of a set of EMGs since I want a harder sound, I've had a set of pups taken from an Artcore in my guitar and am getting a bit tired of the classic rock/jazz sound.

That being said the I would take the P90s over the PAFs do sound sweet from what I've seen on youtube, seem to have a richer and hotter tone than the PAFs ?

In fact there was a set of SD P90s on gumtree for really cheap : http://johannesburg.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-Seymour-Duncan-P90s-W0QQAdIdZ169969847 , you might want to drop him a mail if you're interested as that price seems awesome.

MikeM

Yea amazing price ?

Fishzn

lol, now if he buys em...I deserve a comission dontcha think? ?

MikeM

Dammit now everyone will be able to get my number ? hehehe... As long as he doesn't haggle ? - But let's stick to topic man ? Enough shameless advertising on my behalf hehe

Gearhead

I would say the long and the short of it is that a P90 will be more suitable for cutting through a mix and a PAF will do better beefing up a mix. The 'deep tone' you describe sounds to me like PAF. Better yet, Seymour Duncan Custom Custom ?

TomCat

Just had a listen to the Seymour Duncan "Phat Cat" SPH90.......I'm in love......really like the tone....

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/specialized/progressive/sph901_phat_cat/

HeHe...Phat Cats for Tomcat......

MikeM

The PCs aren't even optimal yet. Their design and magents used make for a slightly muddy tone. Swap one of the A2s for an A5 and you have an amazing pup..

AlanRatcliffe

MikeM wrote: A type of single coil that is thicker than the strat style, usually viewed as in between a bucker and strat.

That's it, but a bit more to the humbucker side of things than the Strat single-coil side. A single coil with an attitude problem. Fat with a midrange focus something like a 'bucker's, but with more of a snappy single-coil attack to them - and a growl all of their own. Turned up full, they're raw and in your face, turn 'em down a bit and they clean up and sweeten up, but still sound very big.

Listen to Mountain's Missisippi Queen or any Mountain for that matter (LP Junior, so only a bridge pickup) or The Who's entire Live At Leeds album (SG), Jethro Tull's Aqualung album (LP Jr. again)... and of course, the solo in Another Brick in the Wall Part 2 (Les Paul).

I looked at that set of Duncans earlier, would have taken them if they were both the vintage models (unless the current owner is willing to split em up? :?), but be aware that that bridge pickup is HOT. Also you'd be looking for a humbucker sized P90 for your ARC300. Lollar, Fralin, etc...

AlanRatcliffe

BTW - this thread is running away - when I started that last post, there were no responses, each time I tried to post it, there was another response or two and I' ended up editing it again. Eventually I said "dammit" and just pressed post twice. ?

TomCat

MikeM wrote: The PCs aren't even optimal yet. Their design and magents used make for a slightly muddy tone. Swap one of the A2s for an A5 and you have an amazing pup..

A2...A5..... ??? ???...Explain.....

MikeM

http://www.guitarforum.co.za/setup-mods-and-repair/magnet-variances/

That's the best way for you to understand.

A2 and A5 are the most common by far. A2 - fat, round, middy. A5 - thin, scooped, almost harsh treble but cuts well.

Btw Alan, maybe PM or I mean e-mail that other guy selling the P90s. You guys could probably come to some kinda deal ?

AlanRatcliffe

Magnetgeekspeak... ? Alnico2 and Alnico5

A5 not harsh... C7/C8 harsh... A5 makes the best singlecoils IMO - snappy.

TomCat

So A2 will be too in your face and A5 more rounded.......

AlanRatcliffe

MikeM wrote: Swap one of the A2s for an A5 and you have an amazing pup..

Oooh - never thought of that, BTW.

Pete Biltoft (Vintage Vibe Guitars) builds his pickups so you can swap the magnets out without taking them apart - I like him ?

TomCat

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
MikeM wrote: Swap one of the A2s for an A5 and you have an amazing pup..
Oooh - never thought of that, BTW.

Pete Biltoft (Vintage Vibe Guitars) builds his pickups so you can swap the magnets out without taking them apart - I like him ?

I presume A5 in bridge and A2 in neck..... :-\

MikeM

I said "almost harsh", Alan. Also depends on the guage of wire if we want to get technical.

We have had MANY discussions on SD about magnets in P90s. A2/A5 does actually sound different to A5/A2. A5/A2 is most balanced neck pup, A4/A8 works very well for bridge. Btw, this applies to HB sized P90s. Regular P90s sound perfect (In most cases) with 2x A2s. That's how they were made in the old days and they made em right ? (Maybe one could put an A5 or even an A3 in, but I'd leave em A2)

TC, otherway around ? You have 2 magnets in each pickup. So you can REALLY play around!

TomCat

Oh my heck...PUP Gas has just hit hard....... ? ?

AlanRatcliffe

MikeM wrote: if we want to get technical.

Who? Me? Never... ?

A2/A5 does actually sound different to A5/A2. A5/A2 is most balanced neck pup, A4/A8 works very well for bridge. Btw, this applies to HB sized P90s. Regular P90s sound perfect (In most cases) with 2x A2s. That's how they were made in the old days and they made em right ? (Maybe one could put an A5 or even an A3 in, but I'd leave em A2)

Useful info there, thanks.

I wasn't considering changing the soapbars just yet (unless the right deal came along ?), and to be honest, I may well decide to go for some polite underwound versions when I do. But then the noiseless versions... And R950 for a pair of SDs is pretty good...

TomCat wrote: Oh my heck...PUP Gas has just hit hard....... ? ?

We know your pain brother, we have lived it...