2012?

Jaen-Pierre-Dowling · 2009-11-19T01:10:02+00:00

Firstly, if a topic like this is offensive to you whatsoever, please don't take part in it's discussion, or be offended by the opinions aired on this thread, seeing that it is just that - opinions. I am really not on a mission to cause discomfort or paranoia of any kind, I'd just like to hear what you guys think about the concept of the 2012 predictions? I'm (sad to say) a huge Zeitgeist follower, and I know that a lot of people dismiss any form of media that causes their believes discomfort. Each to his own, but I was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge about what is said to be on store for us on the 21st of December, 2012? Something interesting I've came across is the Pentagon has, for a while know, undergone extensive upgrades and expansion, all in an effort to create a stronger, safer structure, but the reasoning (or the specifications of the upgrades) isn't really clear. Another odd fact is that the completion date of this said project will be exactly 21 December, 2012. Anything sound odd? I think that the Mayans got their math right (as usual) when they said that the world as we know it will be ending in 3 years' time, but, in contrary to what the soon to-be-released movie, "2012" depicts, I have a strong suspicion that, instead of the earth's physical destruction, the New World Order will be unleashed upon the world. Now let me make this clear, I truly and honestly hope that, in 3 years' time, all of you will be standing there, laughing at me and my far-fetched ideas, but, in the unlikely event that I might be right, I'd just like to share this with you know in an effort to voice my concerns. I'm obviously not making any of this up to attract attention or to get any kind of enjoyment out of it, I've just done more than enough research of my own, (aside from watching all of the Zeitgeist clips of course) and when you start putting all of the parts together, I really don't think that the One World Government, or even the possibility of the excistance of the Illuminati is that far fetched... Knowledge truly is power, and some of the knowledge I've obtained during my countless nights of sitting in front of my computer 'till 4 AM, only to sleep it off in Math the following day, has proven invaluable to me. If I could turn back time I wouldn't want to have anything to do with the stuff that I now know, but what's done is done, and I can honestly say it's changed my life in a way that I can't really describe. I find it truly amazing to see what human beings are capable of doing to their fellow man in order to obtain absolute power. But as I said, I'd like to hear your opinions, so please, enlighten me. ?

chris77

Graham Hancock wrote a great book called Fingerprints of the Gods. Without being condescending towards any group, he draws a lot of parables between ancient cultures and religions and asks a few interesting questions. Defenitely worth the read if this kind of thing tickles your fancy. He mentions the Mayan calendar in it as well, and tries to place it in context a bit.
(I am currently reading Supernatural by the same author. A bit more leftfield (lsd, fairies, aliens, rockpantings etc ??? ), but still interesting. )

Warren

chris77 wrote Graham Hancock wrote a great book called Fingerprints of the Gods. Without being condescending towards any group, he draws a lot of parables between ancient cultures and religions and asks a few interesting questions. Defenitely worth the read if this kind of thing tickles your fancy. He mentions the Mayan calendar in it as well, and tries to place it in context a bit.
(I am currently reading Supernatural by the same author. A bit more leftfield (lsd, fairies, aliens, rockpantings etc ??? ), but still interesting. )

I read Fingerprints ages ago, when it was still very topical, and I was very absorbed at the time.

However, if you dig into much of his research, he really makes some very sweeping conclusions from almost no evidence at all. He wrote a follow up called Heaven's Mirror (I think) which was more of the same.

Can be pretty entertaining stuff, but the science is rather poor. Read it with a dose of healthy skepticism. ?

chris77

+1 Warren? But then again, All of these books, movies etc. needs to be taken with a pinch of salt imo. Theres just too many unknowns involved to be conclusive. Still bloody interesting though... That said, if you have to take Fingerprints with a pinch of salt, then you need all the spice in India for Supernatural. Still a long way to go, but thus far he's drawing parables between halucinogenic visions, fairy lore and aliens. He seems to suggest thus far that there is a dimension beyond our consciousness inhabited by gods/fairies/aliens, and that they have been visiting our reality since the dawn of mankind. We have refered to them as spirit gods, fairies and aliens as our perceptions have evolved, but they are still the same constant beings from our past and present. I reckon he might be heading towards the Revelation that they are in fact the knowledgable givers of wisdom he often alludes to. So ja, if you dont take it too seriously it is entertaining reading and a little bit of a different viewpoint is always welcome in my book. As long as you dont believe everything you read...

Renesongs

If popl dont mind lets discuss the movie and its premises ... its fascinating to watch

Religious and political discussions are outlawed on GFSA. People here will gouge their eyes out over a guitar brand imagine the consequences of a religious disagreement ... ~~make the Spanish inquisition look like summer camp~~ - I did not just say that

Bob-Dubery

Ray wrote Heng ou Bob! You know your stuff hey.

I think my overarching point is that a lot of things get less mysterious as you learn more about history. I'm no expert, but I find that these days I find non-fiction more interesting (and often more bizarre) than fiction and so I read more historical and scientific books. Data is a great demystifier.

singemonkey

chris77 wrote Graham Hancock wrote a great book called Fingerprints of the Gods. Without being condescending towards any group, he draws a lot of parables between ancient cultures and religions and asks a few interesting questions. Defenitely worth the read if this kind of thing tickles your fancy. He mentions the Mayan calendar in it as well, and tries to place it in context a bit.
(I am currently reading Supernatural by the same author. A bit more leftfield (lsd, fairies, aliens, rockpantings etc ??? ), but still interesting. )

Hancock couldn't find his 4rse with both hands. He's a fraud who's done rather well out of life. Try put his inane suggestions in front of historians, archeologists and astronomers, and the slap from the collective face-palm will make your ears ring.

He also likes to ask questions based on BS assumptions - continuing on in that way until you're standing on top of a tower of hot air.

There's no implication that because the cyclical Mayan calendar ends in 2012 that any Mayans predicted the end of the world for then. And even if they had (which they didn't), what the hell did they know? They didn't know what germs were. They couldn't predict the collapse of their own civilisation - otherwise they would have taken measures against it. They failed to predict the cataclysm that western invasion of their continent would bring - killing three quarters of the population in 50 years through diseases to which they had no immunity, and war.

I suppose this is all rather harmless, but these continual fears of apocalypse - as old as civilisation - convince some people to sell their houses and commit suicide and all kinds of things.

After 2012, believers will tell us that us skeptics that we "could have been wrong," ignoring the fact that there's (a) not a shred of evidence for the 2012 apocalypse and (b) that these claims of impending doom pop up every few years (also without any evidence to support them whatsoever besides baseless assertions based on interpreting vague, unfalsifiable prophesies).

People should worry about the actual threats to our future which have real evidence supporting them: global warming, nuclear weapons, the annihilation of biodiversity, the aggressive resurgence of fundamentalism, the threat to our democracy through suppression of freedom of speech, etc.

Ray

X-rated Bob wrote
Ray wrote Heng ou Bob! You know your stuff hey.
I think my overarching point is that a lot of things get less mysterious as you learn more about history. I'm no expert, but I find that these days I find non-fiction more interesting (and often more bizarre) than fiction and so I read more historical and scientific books. Data is a great demystifier.

Stroo yes. But like all books just written by person/s with a point of view and a slant. But it's all good and kills the time.

Bob-Dubery

chris77 wrote Graham Hancock wrote a great book called Fingerprints of the Gods. Without being condescending towards any group, he draws a lot of parables between ancient cultures and religions and asks a few interesting questions. Defenitely worth the read if this kind of thing tickles your fancy. He mentions the Mayan calendar in it as well, and tries to place it in context a bit.
(I am currently reading Supernatural by the same author. A bit more leftfield (lsd, fairies, aliens, rockpantings etc ??? ), but still interesting. )

For me that's not an option. It's either credible or it's bollocks. Good non-fiction authors start with solid data and work forwards from that. Even then things can go pear shaped, but at least you have the option of accepting the data and differing as regards the conclusions drawn from it.

IMO there's a big problem with authors who blur the line between fiction and non-fiction. Dan Brown, I think, is close to that. David Icke peddles fiction as fact.

People like Steven King and JK Rowling are OK by me - they don't pretend to offer anything other than fantasy.

I find similar problems in the media. Some years ago I was involved in the Cricket Society of SA. I recall Luke Alfred from the Sunday Times coming to speak to the society. He made the point that newspapers - all of them - carry a mix of reportage, analysis and opinion, but responsible editors and responsible newspapers/magazines/TV channels/web sites draw clear and obvious boundaries between those three types of content and keep them separate.

The reader/viewer should do the same as well - not confuse opinion with factual reporting.

StephenG

singemonkey wrote
After 2012, believers will tell us that us skeptics that we "could have been wrong," ignoring the fact that there's (a) not a shred of evidence for the 2012 apocalypse and (b) that these claims of impending doom pop up every few years (also without any evidence to support them whatsoever besides baseless assertions based on interpreting vague, unfalsifiable prophesies).

:-\ either way, I am still going to phone in to work sick that day............... cause if the end of the world does not happen on 21 dec 2012, i dont want to have wasted one of my annual leave days.... and, well if it does happen that day... then I think a sick leave day is most appropriate. :-\

Bob-Dubery

Ray wrote
X-rated Bob wrote
Ray wrote Heng ou Bob! You know your stuff hey.
I think my overarching point is that a lot of things get less mysterious as you learn more about history. I'm no expert, but I find that these days I find non-fiction more interesting (and often more bizarre) than fiction and so I read more historical and scientific books. Data is a great demystifier.
Stroo yes. But like all books just written by person/s with a point of view and a slant. But it's all good and kills the time.

There's an old daying that no man is entirely worthless: He can always serve as a horrible example.

There's a similar argument to be made for books (or for TV "documentaries")

Keira-WitherKay

? so to quote lyrics from the the rock band Queen ........... "who wants to live forever?"

frankly everything comes to an end sometime......... ask the dinasours...... ??? .oops we can't can we........

really worrying about predictions that will be global killers are beyond our control.......... cos really if they become reality what can we do to prevent anything that catastrophic........ just read about the effect of a huge astroid hitting earth . no one can hide from it nor can one prepare....... so really enjoy the moment and tell everyone you have close you love them everyday ........ that way you always prepared for the worst

Renesongs

Seeing as as everybody seems cool with this thread and it has not been reduced to eye gouging zealous ranting I might as well give my Z$1 worth. I enjoyed Zeitgeist the movie The parallel between Christianity and Astrology fascinated me because I had not looked at it that way before. There were a couple of points that relied on language specific proofs such as interchanging sun and son. (this is not true in Aramaic, Greek or other languages of the time). The second part re 9/11 was an inside job is what I secretly thought when I watched the towers going down on TV at the time but it is a an extremely difficult one to prove (or disprove) the movie didn't add any new light on that for me. Part 3 the banking conspiracy is where I kind of bailed out, too close to the whack jobs that think that there is a secret building in the Hague that has information on all the people on the planet and 666 is the mark of the devil. If you you Google Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist you will see that it has bred a whole cult culture which is always a sign to me to run away.

On 2012 all I can say it is the same Y2K BS again. I remember being in IT at the time and being shunned because I didn't buy into the paranoia. After the big non event I couldn't even say told you so because these A-holes had convinced everyone the their headless chicken dance had averted the end of the world. The greatest epiphany came to me while reading Steven Hawkins A brief history of Time. He was debating whether there was a beginning to time (big bang) or whether everything just always existed, this is when it struck me, if you believe there is a beginning to everything you have to accept that everything ends as well. Corny, I know, but it seemed to be a big deal to me at the time. 8)

Bob-Dubery

Renesongs wrote On 2012 all I can say it is the same Y2K BS again. I remember being in IT at the time and being shunned because I didn't buy into the paranoia. After the big non event I couldn't even say told you so because these A-holes had convinced everyone the their headless chicken dance had averted the end of the world.

There were two aspects to Y2k. One was a set of potential bugs that were known to exist in operating systems, embedded software and programs and which could be located and remedied. The other was the hype stirred up by the press, not all of who understood the situation properly.

I was in charge of Y2k remediation for the billing system of a big private healthcare group. My team being part of a greater group-wide effort. I found several reports that would look ambiguous with just digits for the year column or sort incorrectly. Easily sorted. I also found a bug that was going to send their billing system into an endless loop not on Jan 1st 2000 at the stroke of midnight but later that month when they ran a specific update. Elsewhere in the group they found some pieces of "smart" equipment that would misbehave in various ways (one potentially resulting in wrong doses of medication where the calculation of the dosage involved the patient's age). And IIRC there was a Y2k bug in the version of Microsoft Office they were running across the group.

All this was taken care of, but how did we know that anybody else was bothering?

As it turned out, most organisations HAD operated pre-emptively and remediated their systems. That doesn't mean that there wasn't Y2k bugs, rather that IT teams, for the most part, had worked rigorously to find and address those bugs.

Maybe if we'd just ignored it in the hope that somebody else would do something then there may have been problems, though not, as I said, necessarily at the stroke of midnight.

Either way we were going to get cursed. Do your job and get cursed because look, nothing happened. Don't do your job and get cursed because you knew about this and still let it happen.

Looking back I think it set the pattern that we know see with global warming - something that everybody should think about. What gets into the press, on either side of that debate, is so hysterical and so twisted that the man in the street can't make sense of the situation. Hysteria makes for good headlines, but not for good information.

Ray

Listen, I was part of a y2k team for a big bank and there was a lot of shit floatin about. yes, programs had to be changed and money had to be spent. And that is the crux, money. Y2K made a lot of money for a lot of people and in the system that we live, that is only a good thing becasue things can only work when people are spending money and being ripped off. Shit system but noone here is big enough to change it. 2012 isnt trying to get you to part with your money though. so maybe some people only subscribe to summin if it's gonna rip them.

Bob-Dubery

Ray wrote Listen, I was part of a y2k team for a big bank and there was a lot of shit floatin about. yes, programs had to be changed and money had to be spent. And that is the crux, money. Y2K made a lot of money for a lot of people and in the system that we live, that is only a good thing becasue things can only work when people are spending money and being ripped off. Shit system but noone here is big enough to change it. 2012 isnt trying to get you to part with your money though. so maybe some people only subscribe to summin if it's gonna rip them.

I think what got a lot of people's attention re Y2k was when the insurance companies pointed out that insurance doesn't apply to things that you can be reasonably expected to foresee. The argument went on along the lines of you know 1st January 2000 is coming, and there are good reasons for thinking that your software needs looking at, and it's still 18 months away and so, no, we are NOT going to pay out of your buildings fall down or your books go out of balance or your smart air conditioners go crazy because you should have seen it coming.

Lawyers helped the cause along as well, saying that if a case was bought against you for something attributable (allegedly or actually) to Y2k the legal test would be wether or not you could show that you had taken reasonable precautions. So we had to have regular meetings, with progress reports, with auditors monitoring everything and with the CEO present so that it could be minuted that he was present.

On the night a team of us camped at the IT center. We were sure of our own systems but
a) We didn't know about anybody else's
b) We had to be able to minute that we were taking it seriously and doing all that we could be reasonably be expected to do.

Having got through midnight with out alarm we rebooted one of our systems to make sure it was still OK after reboot. It was. We tried to get some sleep, but the director who had promised us crayfish and champagne saw to it that the board got all the crayfish and gave us Red Bull instead. This was not conducive to getting a good dose of shuteye.

Anyhooo.... we had a quorum of the board available in case snap decisions had to be made (remember that this was a healthcare group, so the stakes were a bit higher if things went wrong). What if Telkom lines went down? We all had to have cell phones. What if one of the cell networks went down? We had a mix of phones, and some key people carried TWO phones on two networks. What if telkom and both cell operators go down? Our ultimate fallback was ham radio.

Everything worked and we stood down early the next morning. The irony is that our last resort channel of communication, the ham radios, wouldn't have done the job - for reasons beyond their control. 31st December 1999 saw very high sunspot activity, and the hams were battling to talk from Rosebank to Richmond.

Bob-Dubery

Ray wrote Listen, I was part of a y2k team for a big bank and there was a lot of shit floatin about. yes, programs had to be changed and money had to be spent. And that is the crux, money. Y2K made a lot of money for a lot of people and in the system that we live, that is only a good thing becasue things can only work when people are spending money and being ripped off. Shit system but noone here is big enough to change it. 2012 isnt trying to get you to part with your money though. so maybe some people only subscribe to summin if it's gonna rip them.

There will be spin offs.

Likes tours to the spot where the sun will shine first on January 1st 2012.

Like books on how to build your own shelter and what to stock it with because, of course, society will collapse and bands of varmints will be roving and pillaging and it's every man for himself.

The latter is actually a good financial proposition because those books got written during the cold war era and so all you need is a couple of updates, a new title and some new artwork for the cover.

Now I can't tell you which books to read, but I recall that several "experts" back then said that what you need in your shelter is cats. Cats are useful. They keep the vermin down, for a start. You can eat them if things get really bad. And if some unknown person tries to gain entrance one of the things to do is to put a cat in a pillow case, swing the pillow case around a few times to get the cat hissing mad and then dump the contents of the pillow case in the stranger's face.

So I hope you all took notes. Peanut butter is good too - long shelf life.

And, yes, there will be "experts" who will go on lecture tours and sell DVDs explaining to us what is going to happen and why and what we should do to ensure our own survival.

vic

A very real danger lurks between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter...the asteroid belt (ask the Dinosaurs as Keira says ? ). Now and then these rocks collide with one another and get thrown out of orbit and into the inner solar system.... Hundreds of small rocks (50cm or less) enter our atmosphere daily but get burnt out on its flight down to the planet. But a few larger ones survive the journey through the atmosphere, impact with a bang and leave clear evidence of the event.(Meteor Crater in Arizona and the Iridium rich layer at the K-T boundary).

However there are BIG ones out there (10-20 km in diameter) which could pose a very real threat to life on the planet.... Getting hit by anyone of these giants means only one thing....Imho, that is the only event which could end life on this earth, and it has happened in the past...mass extinctions... (according to the paleo's). Comet Shoemaker left four impact spots, each one several times the diameter of Earth, when it broke up and collided with Jupiter a few years ago

Then there's the super volcano underneath Yellowstone National Park which, when it erupts, could potentially cause a catastrophe.

BUT will it happen in 2012 ? All this can be "answered" ito probabilties.....fortunately up to now, no life-threatening object has been detected yet (unless NASA is keeing it a secret ? )

There is however a 1 in 45000 chance of a large asteroid hitting earth in 2029.....quickly do the math ! ?

lindsmuse

I always wonder what the point is to a prophet. If he prophesizes something and nobody does anything about it except make idle chatter, then he really serves no purpose. If on the other hand they DO do something about it it means they change the path they were taking which means the vision he had of the disastrous future no longer exists and not only is he out of a job, but maybe with a ripple back effect from the future he actually never existed! Shame man.

IceCreamMan

i like peanut butter and pussy cats ..win win

vic

lindsmuse wrote I always wonder what the point is to a prophet. If he prophesizes something and nobody does anything about it except make idle chatter, then he really serves no purpose. If on the other hand they DO do something about it it means they change the path they were taking which means the vision he had of the disastrous future no longer exists and not only is he out of a job, but maybe with a ripple back effect from the future he actually never existed! Shame man.

There is not a single major event in recent history which had been predicted in terms of name, place,time and outcome. All these so-called Nostradamus-type prophecies only vaguely relate to events such as WW 1 and 11, 9/11, etc, and persona like Hitler and the likes.
Anyone of us can predict an event of some sort (like JhB will be hit by a great flood, or WP will win the Currie cup) and chances are that such will occur in time to come.

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