What exactly is involed in the initial setup of a guitar?

doc-phil

I see a lot of people posting on this forum speaking about guitar setup and how many retail outlets often fail to setup their guitars properly, which makes it difficult to get a good feel for a guitar when taking it for a spin. I want to know what is involved in the setup of a guitar besides from setting the attack and intonation?

I am going to be trying out a number of guitars over the next couple weeks and I want to know what I should look out for in terms of good setup - and also how not to lose interest in a guitar merely because it hasn't been setup properly.

Thoughts and opinions? ?

Gearhead

Dunno what you mean by attack ???

Let's start off by saying what is meant to be taken away by setting up the guit and explaining these phenomena a bit:
- fret buzz (one or more strings rattle over one or more frets in one or more fretting positions);
- note-outs (when bending, a string does not sustain because of fret buzz);
- too high or too low action (partlypersonal preference);
- intonation problems (note is sharp or flat when fretted, restricted to one string or fret but sometimes in whole regions of the fretboard);
- tuning problems (friction causing stored tension in a string so it changes pitch after tuning, creeping strings detune over time etc.);
- tremolo's not returning to pitch after use;
- string breaking problems (sharp bends make this happen);
- string imbalance (some strings sound louder than others);
- stratitis (magnetism of pickups stops strings from vibrating freely);
- string position issues (strings do not sit in an arc making some harder to strike, or strings run close to the side of the fret board, etc.);
- sharp edges around the playing area such as in fret ends, bridge sides, bridge adjustment screws, knobbies etc.;
- wiring and electronic stuff like hum, scratchy pots, microphonic pups, intermittent contact, tone loss and so forth.

Just by the sheer size of this list (some will argue some things are not part of a setup, to me this is down to the quality of your tech) you can see that it would take too long to answer your question completely - whole books have been written on the topic.

In the narrow sense of the word it comes down to the things directly related to the string/fret interaction: the frets must be level at no load plus the neck angle, truss rod, nut and bridge action and intonation adjustment must be set right.

AlanRatcliffe

Action (both nut and bridge), intonation, truss rod adjustment and pickup heights.

Unfortunately, some problems don't show up until you are setting up. For instance an imperfect fret dress may not show up until you start bringing the bridge action down. So first prize is for the guitar to be set up properly before you try it. Otherwise, if you find one you like that you suspect is not setup properly, ask for it to be given a quick setup (truss rod and bridge action) and try it again.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Action (both nut and bridge), intonation, truss rod adjustment and pickup heights.

I'd go along with that as a sort of basic set of setup considerations - obviously excluding pick up heights in the case of acoustic guitars.

There is though a problem with all of this. Budget guitars, built to less exact specifications than higher-end models, can require more time and material to get to this state than a more expensive instrument. So at some point the guys running the shop have got to decide that it's not worth it to spend a lot of time on a given instrument or instruments in a given price range, or they have to build the cost of a thorough set up into the sticker price of the guitar.

doc-phil

Gearhead wrote Dunno what you mean by attack ???

Oops... its a typo, I meant to say 'action' ?

Thanks for the input everyone. It's quite a bit to keep in mind while testing a guitar. But I suppose things will shout at you if they're clearly setup badly. Does pickup height count in electric guitars? I didn't even know that that was adjustable.

Gearhead

doc-phil wrote Does pickup height count in electric guitars?

Well it's very hard to adjust in most acoustics ?

AlanRatcliffe

doc-phil wrote Oops... its a typo, I meant to say 'action' ?

I figured... ?

Does pickup height count in electric guitars? I didn't even know that that was adjustable.

Quite a bit. Affects output volume and tone. Can also cause intonation problems on guitars with single coils if the pickups are wound too close to the strings.

doc-phil

Gearhead wrote
doc-phil wrote Does pickup height count in electric guitars?
Well it's very hard to adjust in most acoustics ?

Haha I would think so, that's why I specified 'electric' guitars to avoid confusion ?

I haven't adjusted the setup of my epi since I got it 5 years ago, except for correcting intonation a few times. Over the years I've noticed that the action near nut has got extremely low... It almost seems as if the strings have worn the grooves down somewhat, maybe because I use heavier-than-usual strings. At least I have a better idea now of what to take note of in any future purchases, thanks ?

Wizard

Well it's very hard to adjust in most acoustics ?

That really made me laugh.
Thank you.
I needed that.
?

RobK

My feeling is that for trying guitars out, they should have the action set up as per the factory spec, intonation setup correctly and be in tune and the strings shouldn't be too rusted ?. Once I buy, the rest of the items on Gearhead's list can be taken care of, either by the shop including it in the price (or as an extra charge) or me taking it to a professional myself.

Bob-Dubery

You know there's a problem with all of this. If you don't know anything about setup or the various aspects of setup how do you know that a guitar needs a setup?

We had a post here recently from a guy who was wanting to buy his first guitar. He has a friend who is a more advanced player and I suggested that he take said friend along because he has some experience with guitars and is better equipped to judge if a guitar is properly set up and can be properly set up.

There must be loads of people who bought a guitar and decided they couldn't play when a couple of adjustments would have made a big difference to their experience.

TomCat

X-rated Bob wrote You know there's a problem with all of this. If you don't know anything about setup or the various aspects of setup how do you know that a guitar needs a setup?

We had a post here recently from a guy who was wanting to buy his first guitar. He has a friend who is a more advanced player and I suggested that he take said friend along because he has some experience with guitars and is better equipped to judge if a guitar is properly set up and can be properly set up.

There must be loads of people who bought a guitar and decided they couldn't play when a couple of adjustments would have made a big difference to their experience.

+1 Bob....When we were looking for a guitar for Mariann, we were complete noobs at the time....She like the look of the AFS we bought and we though at the time it was a nice guitar to play (Within out very limited knowledge at that time). When I bought my guitar some months later she preferred my guitar to hers as it was easier to play. She then wanted to get rid of her guitar as she did not like it anymore.

We bumped into Mando at Music Connection who convinced us that with a proper set up the guitar would be completely different (better) to play and would also sound a lot better too. We trusted his judgment and let him do a full set up.

All I can say is WOW..!!!!.....what a difference it made. The guitar now plays beautifully, sounds a lot better and stays in tune for longer. Mariann loves it.

All I can say is that the importance of a proper set up on a guitar cannot be overstated.

Bob-Dubery

TomCat wrote We bumped into Mando at Music Connection who convinced us that with a proper set up the guitar would be completely different (better) to play and would also sound a lot better too. We trusted his judgment and let him do a full set up.

All I can say is WOW..!!!!.....what a difference it made. The guitar now plays beautifully, sounds a lot better and stays in tune for longer. Mariann loves it.

And fortunately for you you bumped into the right guy. There would have been other guys at other shops who would have told you the same as Mando did, but he really is one of the best guitar techs in Jo'burg. A nice guy too.

TomCat

X-rated Bob wrote
TomCat wrote We bumped into Mando at Music Connection who convinced us that with a proper set up the guitar would be completely different (better) to play and would also sound a lot better too. We trusted his judgment and let him do a full set up.

All I can say is WOW..!!!!.....what a difference it made. The guitar now plays beautifully, sounds a lot better and stays in tune for longer. Mariann loves it.
And fortunately for you you bumped into the right guy. There would have been other guys at other shops who would have told you the same as Mando did, but he really is one of the best guitar techs in Jo'burg. A nice guy too.

He does all of our guitars now....He's the man...

richardangel

nobody think the frets are worth taking a look at? almost every guitar that comes through our workshop as a brand new buy from the music store has fret problems, either with a few of them being incorrectly seated, often around the 12th fret, and most guitars that aren't new have varying degree's of fretwear, which can mess your intonation, action... cause dead spots... lots of problems. we always include a fret levelling and dress as part of a basic setup when needed, or just a polish when its not. also a good polish and clean *grimace*

AlanRatcliffe

I tend to think frets are beyond a basic setup, particularly what one can get in a retail store setup. However, you are right that it's a rare guitar that can't be improved by a good dress. And don't mention fingerboard grunge.

Also, Richard? If you are part of a shop, please note the forum rules with regard to affiliations and make the necessary additions to your signature. Thanks.

Wizard

Alan Ratcliffe wrote However, you are right that it's a rare guitar that can't be improved by a good dress

Potential thread hijack. Sorry.
Quickly remind me what exactly is involved in a "fret dress"

AlanRatcliffe

It's the whole process of levelling, recrowning and polishing the frets.

Even with modern production line building there is almost always some variance in height from fret to fret, a good builder levels them as part of the fretting process and then touches them up as part of the setup. Unfortunately almost no-one does either at the cheaper end of the scale, and even some of your expensive big brand name guitars don't have it done it until you get into the R50K+ range instruments.

Wizard

Alan Ratcliffe wrote It's the whole process of levelling, recrowning and polishing the frets.

Gotcha.
And I think I've see the (expensive) tools required on StewMac.
Almost seems worthwhile learning to do that yourself