In the beginning

FatBoy · 2008-06-10T09:34:44+00:00

Ok, I dont have uber gear yet, but I thought I'd post what I have so far. I am really pleased with the guitar, the harps are cool too, but I will upgrade them sooner or later. I just got them to get back into the swing of playing harp, and to have most keys available, and for that, they are perfect @ R400 for the set. Guitar is a Cort MR 720F Electric Acoustic Harps are Hohner Bluesband Harmonica set Welll thats it for now, but not for long!

AlanRatcliffe

Yup. Three is kind of the magic number for me, even with lighter strings, I'll just back off the claw and still get a solid feel on the trem and stability when it's not being used.

Of course, sometimes you might want the instability to make a floating or double-locking trem "chirrup" (like a cricket) which is when the bridge wobbles like crazy when you hit the bar or pull up and then let the bar snap out of your hand. Then neither 11's or three springs are advisable.

I had one of the salesd00dz at Bothners totally mystified recently. I was playing a metal machine he wanted an opinion on and I was chirruping nearly every second note - without a bar and with my picking handfar from the bridge, up over the neck pickup. No real secret to it - I play real hard and often snap the strings against the frets by getting under them with my right hand and pulling them up away from the fretboard and releasing them (try that with a pick, ya plectrum pu**ies ?). If you do things like that with an inherantly unstable trem like a Floyd Rose, it will chirrup - try stop it.

MiKeZilLA

Lmao - still paying my dues scale wise i'll leave the bird noises to the pro's for now.... ? Think i'll be happier with a more stable bridge not really playing with the bar at the moment still trying to get the basics down...

Renesongs

If it's the Fender Bullets, they're not great anyway.

I didn't want to be blasphemous but the Bullets are the worst strings I ever experienced, I very seldom break strings but managed to break the G the same day as restringing worst of all they don't sell them in singles.

pulling them up away from the fretboard and releasing them (try that with a pick, ya plectrum pu**ies

Ya well happens to be one of my favourite blues techniques, gives a good strong twangy intonation I've seen some other plectrum puppies, (corrected your little typo), such as Mr Vaughn and Mr Hendrix do it to ?

AlanRatcliffe

Renesongs wrote I didn't want to be blasphemous but the Bullets are the worst strings I ever experienced,

I think we've ragged on the Bullets before. They used to be even worse when the bullet was lead - they always used to get stuck in the damn block.

Ya well happens to be one of my favourite blues techniques, gives a good strong twangy intonation I've seen some other plectrum puppies, (corrected your little typo), such as Mr Vaughn and Mr Hendrix do it to ?

Kind of like a Stanley Clarke "pop", but on guitar? And here was I thinking I was unique. ?

FatBoy

Ok so I have fitted a set of Ernie Ball 11's and it stays in tune now and I am mostly very happy with it. One thing bother me though, I bought a new tuner and after stretching strings quite a bit it now stays in tune when all the strings are open, but when I play a D chord the g string sounds a bit off to me.

I went back to the shop and the oke there played it a bit and said its fine, and I must admit it sounds better when he plays it, but still not 100% to my ear. I think I may be pressing the string down to hard, but I have tried easing off the pressure up to the point where it buzzes and I still cant say I'm happy with the sound.

Could this be an intonation problem? The oke at the music store says he has set it and set it again, I have now tried it myself after a quick read on the net and I realise I'm probably not experienced enough for that.

I would like to know if this is a common problem, as I don't want to fork out big bucks going back and forth to some oke and then end up realising I'm just playing it badly. I've never had this problem on my acoustic.

Any help would be much appreciated.

AlanRatcliffe

I would like to know if this is a common problem, as I don't want to fork out big bucks going back and forth to some oke and then end up realising I'm just playing it badly. I've never had this problem on my acoustic.

Yes, If the intonation has been checked and set, it's probably you, I'm afraid ?. As an acoustic player, you'll be pressing a bit harder than you need to on an electric which has a lighter action.

That was the main reason I suggested 11's, which help a bit, but there's still the unwound G which takes a bit of getting used to as it bends very easily compared to what you're used to.

Renesongs

With due respects to my learned colleague Dr Ratcliffe, my experience has been that changing string gauge can throw the intonation out a tad. This can be easily checked with an electronic tuner. Play the harmonic touching the sting lightly exactly at the 12th fret, tune the string as accurately as you can using the tuner. Now fret the same string at the 12th fret and check the tuner, it should show exactly the same reading on the tuner, Be careful that you are not bending the note. The way I do this is to do exactly the opposite, bend the note slightly and release the bend until the tuner comes to its lowest point. Repeat this process on each and every string. If your intonation check is not satisfactory I recommend you go back to your music store and purchase a copy of "The Electric Guitarist Handbook", I can't remember who the author is ? or try this site http://www.fender.com/support/telecaster.php

AlanRatcliffe

Possibly Dr Rene, but in my diagnosis, I presumed that the store checked the intonation when Fritz took it back to them (admittedly a possibly foolish presumpt). Did they Fritz?

Fritz also said "it sounds better when he plays it". Intonation also shouldn't be too much of a problem at the second or third fret, when pressing a D chord (unless the action is way high).

It's possible the intonation is out, but my experience with similar cases of acoustic guitarists metastasising into electric players suggests it is more likely to be the player himself. No harm in checking though.

Renesongs

Mmm yes, I have to retract my last diagnosis and concur with Dr Ratcliff, bad intonation is usually only noticeable from the 5th fret up. Added to that, Fritz was playing a D chord that would mean his first and strongest finger would be on the G string which he is used to being wound but now is unwound which may have unduly influenced the tone. Mr Brand would you please play us a G chord and tell us how that sounds. (And pleased make sure your frets are properly dressed for the occasion.) ???

FatBoy

Thank you kind doctors. I do believe a little more background of the patient is required.

I did ask them to set the action a little higher than normal, as I do like to indulge in a little slide playing from time to time.

Yes I did ask them to check intonation, and they said they did, but I suppose one never knows. The strings needed a bit of stretching before they stayed in tune, and I have a feeling one would want the strings stretched to check for this disease that is intonation?

Yes it does sound better when he plays it, but not 100% correct to my ears. I suppose this could be due to the fact that my ears have been so horribly scarred by the horrid sound I heard when I played it over and over trying to get it right, that I now single out that note in the chord to some degree. Methinks a third opinion would be in order here.

The guy at the shop gave me the same advice, ease up on the fingers.

G and C chords sound perfect, just this darn D.

I think I'll just have to get this to a friend of mine that has a trained ear as well, to check if he hears the same thing.

Thanks again doctors, I will report back post haste.

AlanRatcliffe

Let us know how it goes...

BTW - Do you have perfect pitch? Or a well developed sense of relative pitch? Any guitar is up to four cent sharp on a variety of notes in the first five frets, particularly on an unwound G string of an electric. Most can live with it, but those with a really good sense of pitch are usually driven crazy by it. If this is the case, I'm surprised that you haven't noticed it on acoustic too (although it's not quite as bad).

This is why I started using the Earvana nuts, which compensate the intonation of the nut, getting virtually the whole fretboard perfect.

Slightly off topic: I had a really good online discussion recently with a piano tuner/guitarist, and he introduced me to the concept of inharmonicity - I've long known about the stretched tunings piano tuners utilise, but I didn't know why they did it. it turns out that inharmonicity applies to the guitar too. Anyway, after a few mails back and forth, we both came to the same conclusion (him from a theoretical viewpoint, me from a practical) - a compensated nut is a good idea.

FatBoy

Hi Alan

She sounds better this morning, but I'm still not 100% happy, maybe I have the dreaded perfect pitch thing? Quite possible, the sound of an off note drives me crazy, and I'm usually the only one that hears it.

I am still to use Dr Rene's advice on doing intonation check /set, because I fiddled with it, I'll need to do it properly now.

The guy at the store also talked about the first 4/5 frets on all guitars being slightly off. I need to get me one of them compensated jobbies then.

Never had this problem on the acoustic, strange indeed. Maybe I'm not 100% pitch perfect, but just very close to it?

Oh well, much happier with me baby this morning.

Will let you know if I manage to improve it.

FatBoy

And here she is!

I will have better pics taken at some stage

AlanRatcliffe

Looking good!

On the intonation - yup, just check it again before just giving yourself some time to acclimatize.

In the pic it's difficult to see, but is the G string saddle at roughly the same position as the D and B saddles? Usually when correctly set, it will be further back.

Renesongs

he introduced me to the concept of inharmonicity

I didn't know it had a name but I have come across this gremlin before. When we was younger and much poorer we used to use a little water-paper on our strings to keep them fresh sounding, unfortunately it causes unevenness in the strings thickness which messes up its ability to stay in tune at different regions of the neck. I came across this again recently with one of my bass students, one of his strings was poorly manufactures and visibly over-wound at one point.

Mr-M

Alan Ratcliffe wrote This is why I started using the Earvana nuts, which compensate the intonation of the nut, getting virtually the whole fretboard perfect.

I've been contemplating these Earvana nuts for my guitars for long while, but succesfully managed to resist the urge for better intonation so far. I think I'm gonna have to get a few now...<Sigh>, GAS has struck again!

AlanRatcliffe

Renesongs wrote When we was younger and much poorer

As opposed to older and poorer? ?

we used to use a little water-paper on our strings to keep them fresh sounding

We used to boil ours with some salt and vinegar. Sounds weird, I know, but the salt raises the boiling temperature of the water and the vinegar is mild acetic acid, which strips away oils.

one of his strings was poorly manufactures and visibly over-wound at one point.

Some brands are terrible for this. I can never get the thicker D'Addario bass strings to quite play in tune properly - and unfortunately, they are the only headless strings available locally.

Mr M wrote I've been contemplating these Earvana nuts for my guitars for long while, but succesfully managed to resist the urge for better intonation so far. I think I'm gonna have to get a few now...

I've been using mine for a while now and the intonation is really impressive. It's one of those things you wonder how you ever managed without it. On the downside, the material is a little softer than I like, which I think may be dulling the tone slightly. I'm going to ask Dave Dunwoodie at Graph Tech if they can make me some LSR sized OEM versions out of Black Tusq (boron polytrinate with Teflon - previously called Trem Nut material ?). Otherwise, I'll get some LSR sized blanks and an OEM Earvana as a template and make a few myself.

FatBoy

Can I place an order yet Alan? Haha

Renesongs

We used to boil ours with some salt and vinegar

Luxury, Luxury, we would have killed for the price of a little salt or vinegar. ?

I used to boil my bass strings in water, Alister from Bothners told me not to be such a nutter - fill an plastic ice cream container with Meths and soak bass strings in there for an hour - whats more if you put the lid on you can use the same meths again and again - or better still strain it through some stale bread mix with water and served chilled ?

AlanRatcliffe

Luxury, Luxury, we would have killed for the price of a little salt or vinegar.

Aye, and you tell kids that today and they don't believe you!

^^Did you see Meaning of Life on Monday night. ever thought I'd see that on local TV. ?

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