Howcome at gigs ...

lindsmuse

And I'm speaking for what I've seen happen to younger musicians ..

1) Someone else always gets the money. Everyone but the musician ...the event organiser, the sound guy, the last band,the cleaning lady ...EVERYONE but the poor ol musicians

2) The sound is almost ALWAYS a problem. Why can't someone invent something so that all the instruments don't have to be wired to a another source and another - and all these cables causing all these problems ...

3) The band practice their hearts out 7 days a week for THE BIG GIG. Guess what. On the night, one or 2 of the members (to calm their nerves of course) get mindlessly drunk and wreck the set!!!

4) You're always the band that plays last to 2 or 3 drunk guys ... and you also practiced 24/7 for a month! ?

singemonkey

Karl Marx could explain a lot of this ? If the musicians own the "means of production" - the sound gear - they'll make more money I guess. And it's the dream to have your own sound guy as the extra band member; sorting out cables, making sure you don't sound crap, and taking an equal part of the takings. Ah... the dream...

TomCat

It's called "Life"

"Life" is what happens when you are planning other things.... ??? ???

DonovanB

Swell band had our own sound guy as part of the band for a while. It was awesome, no worrying about anything and we always sounded good (whether we were is another question)

as for the money that is the big question. An original band will play for nothing to get exposure. Once you can tell a venue that you can draw a crowd then you're in. until then your leverage is poor I'm afraid.
Cover bands do it different, they charge to play other people's songs and rightly so. you don't need to be a fan of the local pub band, just the music they play, which will in most cases be what most people like.

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote: 2) The sound is almost ALWAYS a problem. Why can't someone invent something so that all the instruments don't have to be wired to a another source and another - and all these cables causing all these problems ...

The only 100% solution to that is for the artist/s to retain a sound guy who knows what he is doing and is in tune with what the artist wants and travel with their own sound system that they know is properly maintained.

Which is expensive.

An alternative is to retain a sound guy who knows what he is doing and make arrangements so that he has plenty of time to check out the rig at the venue, patch in any special equipment that you have to have, and test everything.

Which is less expensive but still not cheap - and the venue may find such an arrangement inconvenient.

It's not a local problem either. The last few years I've been to some shows in the UK. Sound quality was variable. I think that the organisers don't always pay proper attention to this - even if they have good intentions. When we saw the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain they had poor sound. This was a fund raising gig in a church. Maybe the venue was the problem, or maybe the organisers didn't understand the need for a good sound person. The UOGB won through though with their personalities, but quite a bit of instrumental detail was lost in the mix - particularly when solos were being taken.

And I think people understimate the task. I have been impressed by exchanges on this forum with the likes of Neps and Tomcat by what good sound guys know and need to know. I think a lot of people think it's a case of buying some speakers and an amp and some cables and a desk and having somebody add some bass, cut the midrange etc etc.

Byron

If the venue is small enough can you get away with not using a PA system? . So lets say the room is tiny and you've got an un-miked drum kit and any amp stack for guitar and bass.

lindsmuse

Think I should be more specific ... the gigs being the typical gig run by young guys! Metal - in my experience - (a son guitarist). But I love the boom in metal SA irrespective of the chaos. Its great! Interesting to watch. Bit heavy on the ears! ?

DonovanB

there we go then, they are being run by young guys....

I guess they are only running it because there is a lack of venues in the area for them to play?

MIKA-the-better-one

The trick is proffesionalism, as a band you set a standard at practice and home, you know your songs, you set rules for the band, In my band at the moment which has just got started, we all know there is no drinking before a show (or our first one in jan, this used to be rule in my old bands, If a guy breaks this rule then he is out, he doesnt care for the music that much.
For the venue, if you set yourself up right they have to see you the band as a money making thing. It is a business, if you want to get paid they need incentive to pay you, further more you can then based on demand dictate the terms of your playing. Therefore good PA, X3 stage moniters, a sound guy who will know whats up, or your own is even better, compressors for the overall mix (not behringer).
But to do this you have to provide the club with incentive that you are big, and pro. Thus well rehearsed, good working equipment, a crowd etc etc.....
I am afraid not to many bands do this in SA do this, and you cannot expect every band to be like this straight away. But it really is in the hands of the band.
hope that helped

PeteM

+1 MIKA, it is the band's responsibility.

lindsmuse

Good advice - will pass it along. ?

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote: Think I should be more specific ... the gigs being the typical gig run by young guys! Metal - in my experience - (a son guitarist). But I love the boom in metal SA irrespective of the chaos. Its great! Interesting to watch. Bit heavy on the ears! ?

They possibly have bought into the mythology surrounding the likes of Slash and Keef. You know... a bottle of Jack whilst you're tuning, another on the walk to the stage and there better be another bottle on top of the amp in case he needs a top-up mid-solo.

Getter 'em to embrace a better roll model. Richard Thompson is a better than decent electric guitarist by anybody's standards and he's been teetotal for years and recently gave up coffee - which he described "my last remaining drug".

Seriously, if these are friends and/or family of yours try to get 'em to consider whether they'll play better loaded or unloaded, and get them to accept that pre-gig nerves are something that many players had to go through (and still do).

Seventhson

I dont see the point in getting hopelessly drunk or stoned out of ones mind. I dont drink or drug.

[deleted]

recently gave up coffee - which he described "my last remaining drug".

I know this is very off topic, but coffee is very hard to give up. It's looks so innocent, but just try and give it up.

baseline

i have to agree with Seventhson, ever tried having a conversation with a drunk, guy or girl. bad news man!!

lindsmuse

They possibly have bought into the mythology surrounding the likes of Slash and Keef. You know... a bottle of Jack whilst you're tuning, another on the walk to the stage and there better be another bottle on top of the amp in case he needs a top-up mid-solo.

Here is the problem with so many young musos. Look at some of the role models. Booze and drugs have been romanticized - lookit Hendrix and Stevie Rae and Janis an on and on from previous generations and still today. They maybe think they are so good and invincible that their drugged or drunk state will bring a certain magic and raw edge to the music. That is totally impossible - its difficult enough trying to get it right sober. Haha and some of these guys were really bad to begin with. I just get peedoff cause my son used to take playing in a band seriously - still does. Luckily the line up he has today feels the same.

DonovanB

There is no rule saying you have to drink or take drugs. some people seem to think that it comes with the territory.

[deleted]

I appologise in advance to all people who drink to take the edge off their nerves, but here goes. I can't help noticing a similarity in a toddler who won't let go of their dummy and a performer nursing a drink of some sort like it'll grant them super powers. It's a security thing, and I gues I'm not saying we should be super heroes and feel no fear, but it's not always an element of your personality that you want to advertise. Some performers look like thy're eager to let the world know how unprepared they are.

MIKA-the-better-one

I find its more just a lifestyle to some people, the ysee everyone doing it so they do. All the cool musicians they see do it so they join. I used to have a rel problem in an old band with drugs, and booze but mainly hardcore drugs, guys thought it made the music more expansive and out their mind, but i think if you have to do that to make your music good then... you are not a very good musician. HOwver some of my favourite bands drink and drug so i gotta tread lightly.

FatBoy

I drink to make myself believe that other people would want to listen to the crap that I can bring forth ? I agree with all the points, I am just way too shy to perform sober, probably why I don't really perform ?