Manfred-Klose
Basically i hooked up my midi controller, and it works perfect when recording, but when i play back the midi part i just recorded , it is time delayed, it moves the sample a little bit forward, when played with a click track, one can hear that is is out of tempo.
Is this a problem with Cubase SX3? , and no it is not the latency.
Any suggestions?
AlanRatcliffe
Well it is latency (delayed sound is the basic definition of latency), but where it's coming from is the question. Being MIDI, it's not the normal audio latency you hear when you record an audio signal, but if you are using a softsynth - it may be the softsynth which is misbehaving. It could be any number of other things too - stress on the computer, a badly behaved driver an effect on the output of a softsynth - almost anything... Basically you have to isolate everything that could be the cause, one by one, until you find the culprit.
I'm not as clued up in Cubase as some, so if it's something specific to Cubase, I may not be able to help. I'm sure Rene will chip in on the computer side - he's probably going to want to know what your soundcard is (hey Rene? ;D). IIRC Mr. M knows Cubase well, so he might come up with something I don't think of.
Off the top of my head, try the following:
Check in the actual note events and see if they are in time there, then quantise a section if you have to to make sure the MIDI notes are perfectly in time. If they are, and it's still playing back out of sync then it is something to do with playback latency.
Next try changing your synth for another - something simple with a simple sound (synthesised rather than sampled would be best). Also check to see if there are any audio effects on synth output tracks, bus inserts or master inserts - basically anything in the audio path needs to be checked out.
Exactly what hardware are you using for MIDI and audio? Some brands are known to be problematic, causing huge problems with all kinds of odd symptoms that can make troubleshooting difficult.
Anyone else?
Manfred-Klose
I've had endless nights trying to figure it out why it happens, but it also happens to someone else I know with kind of the same setup.
I use a M-Audio Fast track Pro, M-Audio Uno midi interface.
My computer is good enough to handle the things I do.
Is has to be something with the playback latency, but instead of being delayed in the normal way, this one is being pre-delayed, so that when i finished recording i have to move the midi sample in sync with the tempo.
AlanRatcliffe
The M-Audio stuff is good, so it's unlikely to be a hardware specific problem. Sorry - I had to make sure you weren't using something like a Soundblaster and then wondering why things didn't work properly. I didn't want to say outright SB is crap as that's all some folks have/can afford. ?
I still think it's audio latency. What's probably happening is the metronome is routed through your soundcard, either because it's audio based, or because it's MIDI, but you are using a softsynth to generate the sound - which uses the audio for output. So the metronome is playing late due to the audio latency and you're playing along to it, so you are playing late.
Check the settings for your Fast Track Pro and set the latency as low as it can go without audible clicks and pops. That should sort it.
Manfred-Klose
I got the latency down to 5ms.
I'll play around with the metronomme, but everything insync the way it should be.
AlanRatcliffe
'K. Let me know how it works out.
Renesongs
Sorry I haven't jumped in sooner - I was a bit tied up yesterday. I'm not a Cubase user but I have on occasion had latency problems with midi in Sonar. My guess is you are using an external keyboard to drive a software synth? In which case AUDIO latency can come into play. M-Audio make good cards, Make sure that you are using ASIO drivers in Cubase and that your sample rate is 48000 or better and your latency should vanish - hope that helps ?
Mr-M
Manfred, some questions and questions for you that might help in diagnosing your problem:
1. Which MIDI controller keyboard (make, model) are you using, or is it a regular keyboard with MIDI output?
2. I assume you must be using the MIDI output of your keyboard into the M-Audio UNO MIDI interface? Try connecting the keyboard's MIDI output directly with a MIDI cable to the MIDI input on your Fast Track Pro soundcard, instead of the UNO interface.
3. If you are using a MIDI controller keyboard, almost all of them have a USB output, eliminating the need for using MIDI interfaces. If it has a USB output, try using this instead of your MIDI interface.
4. Have you downloaded and installed the latest drivers for the UNO and Fast Track Pro and have you installed the latest update for Cubase SX3? If not, I 'd suggest doing so.
There's another thing I could think of that it might be, but it would be better to rule out all the hardware and software issues first that could be causing your problem, before running down a rabbit trail. These kind of things are always a process of elimination.
Manfred-Klose
1.normal keyboard with midi output
2.Does the same with the m-audio uno and with fast track pro midi in, Both work fine.
3.no usb in keyboArd.
4.all drivers are up to date.
I'm going to try a different sample rate, I am using 44.1 16 bit at the time, my soundcard can handle 48kHz.
Will that make a diffeference?
Renesongs
I'm not sure of the exact physics, (ie too lazy to work it out right now), but I have noticed that my latency decreases when I increase my sample rate to 48kHz and 96kHz on my M-Audio 44. I also have a "latency" setting in the volume control panel of my card, I set it to 64 samples - I don't know what it means because the manual is in englaneese but trial and error has shown me that this works best. ?
Mr-M
I found a fix on a forum for a similar problem to yours, but I don't know if it will work in your situation:
http://forums.di.fm/archive/index.php/t-100108.html
The fix is near the botttom of the page. I can't try it though because I'm running Studio 4 which is rather different to SX3.
What about the shop you bought it from? Can't they help you with it?
You could also try calling Tuerk Music, the Steinberg distributors. I've had some small issues with Cubase & Wavelab before that they've helped me with. The support guy's name is Mark. He's pretty good and if he doesn't know how to fix your problem he finds out directly from Steinberg. Did that for me on a Wavelab CD Authoring issue I had and they sorted me out within a couple of days. Give them a try: 011 792 8402
Your best bet if the fix doesn't help you.
Mr-M
Glad we could help!
Let us know if it works out for you.
Manfred-Klose
Yeah!!!!!!! i finally got it working the way it should.
I found the answer somewhere on a swedish forum........
It has something to do with windows XP that confuses the soundcard.
here is the solution for those with a similar problem:
Answer
MIDI port filter - Important note regarding MIDI Interfaces and Midi timing
On certain systems MIDI timing problems, shifted notes, wrong MIDI events recorded or similar MIDI related issues can occur when the default emulated Midi ports are used.
This is how to change the used MIDI ports to a more compatible solution.
Cubase SX (since 1.02)/SL/SE and Nuendo 2 (since 2.01) have a function to filter out redundant MIDI ports provided by the MIDI interface driver. For instance if the MIDI interface driver installs both Windows MIDI ports and DirectMusic ports, these ports used to both show up. Since DirectMusic mirrors the Windows MIDI ports as "emulated" DirectMusic ports by itself, it was possible that the MIDI ports showed up even 3 times in the MIDI device list. These multiple appearances of the MIDI ports were actually "multiple versions" of the same physical MIDI port.
To avoid this, the application provides an option to remove these redundant entries utilizing the MIDI port filter. However, in some cases the non-filtered, left over MIDI ports that will show up in the MIDI device list can be the ones that actually do not work as the MIDI interface driver doesn't support the DirectMusic architecture as Cubase SX/SL/SE and Nuendo would expect.
These cases were for example found with the following MIDI Interfaces:
- MIDIMAN MIDIsport 8x8
- MOTU MIDITimepieceAV
- Emagic MIDI interfaces
In this case, you can re-enable the filtered MIDI ports by proceeding as follows:
- Browse to the Cubase SX/SL/SE or Nuendo application folder (usually C:\programs\steinberg\...)and locate the folder "MIDI Port Enabler"
- Open this folder
- Pick the file "ignoreportfilter" and move it into the application folder (one directory up)
- Start Cubase SX/SL/SE or Nuendo 2
Now all available MIDI ports provided by the MIDI interface driver will appear in the MIDI device list - the non emulated Windows MIDI ports as well. Please be aware that the MIDI ports now can show up 2 or 3 times in the list. If you're used to manage your MIDI IN by setting "All MIDI Inputs" in
the MIDI IN selector, you should go to the Device Setup/All MIDI Inputs and disable the unwanted ports. Otherwise you will record MIDI from multiple ports which results in double MIDI notes.
The non emulated MIDI ports might provide a far better timing than the emulated DirectMusic ones.
Since Cubase SX/SL 2.2 and Nuendo 2.2 another additional option is available.
In Devices -> Device Setup -> DirectMusic you can find the option "use system timestamp"
This option basically uses a different time as the timing reference. So instead of using the older non-emulated Windows MIDI ports checking this option might also improve the timing depending on the system and the components used.
Some additional background:
The physical MIDI port of the interface can be supported by one of three
different driver models:
(1) "Old" NT4 Kernel mode driver
(2) WDM Model driver
(3) WDM Streaming Model driver "real DM", used by our Steinberg Midex devices
It depends on the MIDI interface manufacturer, which drivers they deliver.
If DirectX 8 or higher is installed in the system (Win XP includes DX 8.1), drivers (1) and (2) can be adopted by emulating the MIDI ports.
So if a device has these sorts of drivers, Cubase/Nuendo will find the original and the emulated ports.
The result is that a note coming in on one physical input is delivered via two "drivers" and thus two apparent MIDI ports at once.
By disabling the emulated ports, only the original input will be regarded.
In case (3) a driver supports two sorts of ACCESS METHODS.
